fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2565 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2565 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

08. [SPOILERS for Shingeki no Kyojin / Attack on Titan]

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09. [SPOILERS for The Walking Dead]
http://i.imgur.com/Rnp3pTB.png
[gore in image]

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10. [SPOILERS for American Horror Story]

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11. [SPOILERS for Doctor Who]

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12. [SPOILERS for Sherlock]
http://i.imgur.com/d4tbog4.png
(OP requested link)

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13. [SPOILERS for Sherlock]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #366.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Star Trek TOS: "The City on the Edge of Forever" (This is the episode I point to whenever I'm trying to convince people that Shatner really can act.)

Star Trek TNG: "The Measure of a Man"

Elementary: "Snow Angels"

Community: I haven't seen every episode yet, but of the episodes I have seen, I thought "Modern Warfare" was the best.

The Powerpuff Girls: The one where Mojo Jojo turns everyone into dogs.

Star Trek TOS: "The City on the Edge of Forever" (This is the episode I point to whenever I'm trying to convince people that Shatner really can act.)

Such a fantastic episode. Honestly, I'm not even sure what else you could even argue for, really.

That episode was really in a class by itself.

Oh, The Measure of a Man is fantastic.

I love both of those Trek episodes, hard.

City on the Edge of Forever may actually be one of my least favorite episodes. All I can ever think is that are we really supposed to like a woman who thinks the US should stay out of WWII of all things? I mean, maybe no one in the US ever found out about the Holocaust until after the war was over, but that seems unlikely.

I think that we're supposed to think that her motives are pure and respect her on that basis. And I think that's fair - she's wrong about the facts and the effects her actions would have, but she's coming from a legitimate moral position, and her action in response to it is admirable.

Also, it's set in the 1930s, so I would say that it's fairly reasonable that she wouldn't know about the Holocaust.

It was set in the 1930s, before the actual gas-chamber-mass-execution stage of Holocaust even started, let alone became common knowledge, and long before Pearl Harbor. It wasn't set in the middle of WWII or something like that. WWII had just begun in Europe during that episode.

That's when the episode was set, but by the time America got involved in the war it was known. Since the idea of the episode is that if she doesn't die, her work continues, it seems like she would be keeping on past the point where people knew or at least suspected about the Holocaust.

Except they didn't? America got into WWII because of Pearl Harbor, not because of the Holocaust. The Allies didn't find out about the Holocaust until a good while later. In fact, the Holocaust (as in, the mass-executions-in-death-camps aspect of it) DIDN'T EVEN HAPPEN until later.

I mean, maybe no one in the US ever found out about the Holocaust until after the war was over, but that seems unlikely.

Check your history again, please. The Holocaust wasn't general knowledge until well into WWII.

By the point the US got involved, though, which is the event she would be stopping if she survived, it was known.

It wasn't really general knowledge, I don't think. It was general knowledge that the Nazis were being major assholes to the Jews and that it was an anti-Semitic regime that was persecuting the Jews, but the actual "enormous and intentional program of extermination" part, not so much, and certainly not the details and the extent of it. Some people may have had intimations, but it was not general knowledge, certainly not in 1941 or '42.

The thing is that the Holocaust is a separate thing from the broader persecution of Jews. The Jews were being persecuted, yes, for a long time. And there were already pogroms in some of the occupied territories. But the Holocaust isn't just the persecution of the Jews, it's the organized attempt to exterminate them, mostly by rounding them up and taking them to concentration camps. And that really doesn't get started until late 1941, and not really as an organized, coherent thing until 1942. I mean, the Wannsee Conference doesn't even take place until January 1942 - a month after the US was already at war in OTL.

So it seems unlikely that she could have known that the Holocaust was going on. She could have known that the Nazis were pretty awful people, but that's different. And in that context, I think you can still admire a pure and fervent desire for peace, even if it's ultimately misguided.

I think you could also interpret it that delaying the entry into World War 2 was more about the strength of the popular movement she built, and less about her specific political choices, if that helps you at all.

"The Measure of a Man" is probably my favorite TNG also. I don't know; I love a whole lot of that show.

Shatner could act, Joan Collins couldn't. that ep would have been perfect with a different actress.

[ SECRET POST #2565 ]

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