[ SECRET POST #2570 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2570 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[The Lying Game]


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03.
[Hobbit movies, LOTR movies, Tolkien]


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04.
[Perry Mason]


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05.
[Carnivale]


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06.
[Downton Abbey]


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07.
[BBC Sherlock]


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08.
[Lee Pace]


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09.
[Virtue's Last Reward]


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10.
[Deep Space 9]


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12.
[Elementary]














Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 040 secrets from Secret Submission Post #367.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fleshisyummy]

Dude, having a het relationship isn't inherently homophobic. It's because the canon and pretty much every adaptation features John as a dude and friends with Sherlock. Sherlock and John's relationship is probably one of the most well-known "bromances" known in media. You can't tell me it isn't fucked up to adapt a well-known platonic same sex relationship into a heterosexual romance by changing the sex of one of the characters because it would more accepted by the media and audience.

The OP isn't deluded. You're just really dense.

[(Anonymous)]

Why is this simple concept seemingly so difficult for so many to understand? It's not that fucking difficult!

[(Anonymous)]

+1. Perfectly stated.

[(Anonymous)]

Elementary deciding to do a storyline where Sherlock and Joan hook up would not be the same thing as deciding to "adapt a well-known platonic same sex relationship into a heterosexual romance by changing the sex of one of the characters because it would more accepted by the media and audience"

that's kind of the central point here

it's a question of which comes first: the changing the gender, or the romance. and i think the changing the gender comes first.

[fleshisyummy]

So what? Plenty of shows decide for characters to be certain genders beforehand and then pair off characters in later seasons that weren't foreshadowed in earlier seasons because they run out of ideas. That doesn't make those heterosexual relationships less straight, lol.

If there was a Joan/Sherlock romance (which I think is unlikely), it doesn't change the fact that they would be adapting a platonic same sex relationship into a heterosexual one. It doesn't matter if it's premeditated or not. It would still be problematic because the show runners know that Joan being a woman would make that relationship more accepted.

[(Anonymous)]

da

exactly. I'm not sure why this "chicken or egg" discussion is happening, when, if Joan/Sherlock happens, it still makes an iconic bromance heterosexual, when it never would've been accepted as homosexual. The result is still the same, and surely even if intentions were innocent, it would be an important point of discussion for the writers to have before going through with it.

[(Anonymous)]

If they made it into a relationship it would be equally problematic as it is right now - because the thing that's problematic is that Joan being a woman would make the relationship more accepted, and that's as true now as it would be if they actually had the relationship - and it would still be equally inaccurate to describe the show as "homophobic". The element that is problematic is on the level of the media landscape in general. If they had a relationship, it would be a relationship that would be heterosexual and straight, like all those other relationships that are heterosexual, but it would not be homophobic.

[(Anonymous)]

It would be a validation of the homophobic mindset, and therefore contribute to it.

[(Anonymous)]

I just don't get why people can't see that it isn't even ABOUT Elementary, exactly… the criticism of any potential romance in this one show being homophobic, I mean. It's this show AS IT EXISTS IN THE CONTEXT OF ALL THE OTHER SHOWS (not just Sherlock Holmes shows, but ALL shows!) AND OTHER SHERLOCK CANONS which would make this problematic. In a different world where gay relationships were portrayed more frequently and with much more variety, this wouldn't even be an issue… individual creative people should feel free to tell the stories they want to tell, and without a larger context to worry about, it wouldn't even be problematic!

For me, if Elementary goes down the route of having Joan and Sherlock become an item, it by definition becomes problematic. But that doesn't mean to me that they shouldn't do it… it's just something that writers need to understand going in, knowing that they will offend some of their audience and disappoint even more of them, and decide if that is worth the risk. It's a lot like the Bechdel test; I never think that people should AIM to write stories specifically to "beat" the Bechdel test: people should tell the stories that are in their heart to tell, period. But I DO think there needs to be more opportunities in Hollywood and in the official publishing world for people who tell different, less problematic stories. I don't want them to shy away from gay characters "because some of the audience will be offended," because they sure as hell don't shy away from portraying bigoted characters, regardless of whether the audience will be offended or not. I want Hollywood to respect the audience and be fearless about telling all KINDS of stories, including those which would be offensive to conservative audiences.

Anyway, again. The thing about Elementary in specific that would make this a doubly disappointing move is that the writers already PROMISED it wouldn't happen. Once you make promises to the audience, it's really shitty to go back on those promises. But EVEN THEN, if it turns out that this is the story they feel they have to tell, they should still go for it, and risk offending their audience. But I also think fans would be completely justified in being pissed off and dropping the show altogether. Dropping problematic bullshit just because it's problematic is a viewer's right, and shouldn't be criticized as being a SJW thing.

[rivulet027]

This!

[(Anonymous)]

The intentions of the show is not to have them hook up. If they suddenly reverse this decision, it'll be because of the characters they have, not the characters the characters were based on.

Homophobic would be the relationship not being permitted to happen in shows where they are both men. That's it. No shows having this theme in the popular culture is a homophobic trend, and you're certainly right to question it.

If Elementary was a show created with the intention of having a romance between the main pair, you would have a point, albeit not as strong as you seem to think, but it was not.