fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2577 ]

[ SECRET POST #2577 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2577 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Theresa Lopez-Fitzgerald-Crane, from the soap opera Passions]

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03.

[BBC Sherlock]

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04.

[Nobunaga the Fool]

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05.

[Carrie Fisher as Princess Leia from Star Wars]

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06.

[The Quick and the Dead]

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07.

[Nathan Fillion]

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08.

[Warehouse 13]

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10.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 030 secrets from Secret Submission Post #368.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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even though I'm pretty sure both of my grandfathers were actually very non-Nazi

What's your evidence for this?

Remind me why I owe you evidence for that?

You don't. But the silence is pretty deafening!

Lol yeah, no. The old "ooooh, you won't tell me so it's not true" goading won't work. especially not from you, of all people. What would you even want me to say - you would only disregard all "evidence" as hearsay and ~stories they told you but that weren't true ~ because your opinion is already pretty fixed and you are just reproducing the same old tired stereotypes without any real "proof" behind it yourself - that's pretty clear , looking at your other answers. Short of telling you their names, there is no definite proof I could give and even then, I could be lying for all you know. So yeah, nice try, but I really don't have to justify myself to you.

The long paragraph about why you won't say a single damn thing is even more deafening!

I understand that you don't want to believe your grandfathers probably did some dodgy shit. Doesn't make your grandfathers evil but yeah they probably heiled a bit and a good portion was likely enthusiastic because they were normal and there was a terrible war going on.

Edited 2014-01-23 11:34 (UTC)

No shit, they were enlisted in the army of course they "heiled" a bit if they didn't want to get shot on the spot you fucking moron. Doesn't mean you are a fan of the ideology. Not enthusiastically though, I am very certain of that. But again, what is that grand, beautiful proof you want? It's pretty clear you already made up your mind about it.

I don't know, actually saying something of substance?

Imagine our exchange if it were about something else.

"My great-grandfather was a confederate but he hated slavery, I'm sure of it."

"So was he an abolitionist? Did he subscribe to an antislavery newspaper? Was he a Free Soiler? What evidence do you have that he hated slavery?"

"HE SAID SO AFTER THEY LOST THE WAR OKAY GOD I DON'T OWE YOU AN EXPLANATION YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT ANYWAY [paragraph continues without substance]"

Edited 2014-01-23 12:52 (UTC)

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chardmonster - 2014-01-23 13:38 (UTC) - Expand

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chardmonster - 2014-01-23 16:31 (UTC) - Expand

How about an anecdote? I know that one of my grandfathers and his family were anti-Nazi, and from the top of my head I can think of two anecdotes that make that quite clear, not even counting the fact that they had Jewish friends and tried to flee the country after the NSDAP came into power. And I wouldn't have to name any names, as you claim up-thread for some strange reason.

Why are you so hellbent on chard already being pre-disposed to disbelief you? The way you went off makes it look like chard was right, and I say that as a German who, as mentioned, has a grandparent who wasn't a Nazi.

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Maybe they, I don't know, KNOW THEIR GRANDFATHERS? Sorry, but contrary to popular belief, the entire German population was not madly in love with the Nazis and with every little bit of Nazi ideology.

but contrary to popular belief, the entire German population was not madly in love with the Nazis and with every little bit of Nazi ideology.

True! But the majority were pro-Nazi (pro-Nazi does not mean "madly in love." It often meant "hey, this regime is giving me some useful things."), and a great many of them told their kids they weren't Nazis, not really, they had no choice and all that.

But what do I know I've only graded many many papers and exams about Nazi Germany

It's the type of anecdotes you get told mostly that help you figure it out. And for my generation, it's really been a burning question to understand how on earth our grandparents were involved in this atrocity. My granddad was a socialist, but he built submarines so actively involved in the war effort. My grandma definitely had pro-nazi/keep your head down things are ok for us leanings, although I never did work out the exact boundary.

Last I checked even research historians are undecided just how wide popular support for the nazi party was, so I'm not sure how a paper or exam could be telling you much.

so I'm not sure how a paper or exam could be telling you much.

I should clarify: I was a graduate assistant helping with a class, but I had to do all the reading, attend lectures, and know it better than the undergrads.

Research historians are undecided about how wide popular support was, but most have come to the conclusion that popular support was wide, they just don't know how wide. Remember, the Nazis won a fair election. They built support after that.

But the anon chardmonster is/was arguing with didn't provide any anecdotes that prove their grandfathers wer anti-Nazis. I'll be honest, I'm with chard in this case.

But what do I know I've only graded many many papers and exams about Nazi Germany

Well, you just answered your own question there. Try to live it and then judge.

"History is meaningless without time machines~"

Because Germans in general was not any more anti jews than the rest of Europeans at the time? Not that Europe liked jews, but most didn't hate them enough to want to torture and murder them.

~~intersting history fact: If Norway was invaded by The UK before The Germans, which was a pretty close call, we would most definitely have joined the Nazis.~~

If you look at what polling we have from the 1930s, the Nazis attracted a lot of voters who weren't necessarily very antisemetic. Pro-nazi did not always mean violently anti-jew.

that's a ridiculous question to ask someone. at best their evidence will be my grandfather's told me, which they wouldn't be able to back up beyond their word anyway. what's their evidence for being german? what's their evidence for having grandfathers? such a stupid question

I'm wondering if their grandfathers were communist or Social Democrats or one of a few other reliably anti-Nazi factions. Or if they'd just said "I wasn't a Nazi" after all the ugly stuff was revealed.

It wouldn't mean their grandparents were evil. It'd mean their grandparents were human. I was just curious.

maybe they weren't involved in politics.

*gasp shock and awe*

"My grandfathers weren't at all political but trust me they were very, very antinazi, in a state where being so both lacked incentive and could land them in legal trouble."

that's a very different question. would you have demanded evidence for their left wing credentials as well? or would you just believe it?

I'd just believe it.

You would that just believe but the other statement not?

I really don't get your logic - if there is any at all...

Lol - are you even real or just trolling again?

Where is your evidence that you are really a history student, trying to write a dissertation (besides claiming this at every other comment)?

Just because you say so doesn't make it more believable without real evidence.

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