fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2579 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2579 ⌋

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15. [SPOILERS for Shingeki No Kyojin / Attack On Titan]

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[The Venture Bros.]

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There's a prolifeanon?

Here's a recent story about this case.

Fetus in Muñoz case is “distinctly abnormal,” attorneys say

By Elizabeth Campbell

liz@star-telegram.com

FORT WORTH — Attorneys for the family of a pregnant Haltom City woman who has been on life support at John Peter Smith Hospital for eight weeks issued a statement late Wednesday that the fetus is “distinctly abnormal.”

The 22-week-old fetus’s lower extremities are deformed and it is impossible to determine its gender, the attorneys for the woman’s husband, Erick Muñoz, said in an emailed statement.

“The fetus suffers from hydrocephalus [water on the brain]. It also appears that there are further abnormalities, including a possible heart problem, that cannot be specifically determined due to the immobile nature of Mrs. Muñoz’s deceased body,” the statement said.

The fetus, which was deprived of oxygen for “an indeterminate length of time, is gestating within a dead and deteriorating body as the horrified family looks on,” the attorneys said.

Marlise Muñoz, 33, was 14 weeks pregnant when she collapsed Nov. 26. She was taken to JPS, where doctors told her husband that she was brain-dead. He and other relatives asked that life support be removed.

JPS officials refused, citing a state law requiring that a pregnant woman remain on life support until the fetus is viable, usually at 24 to 26 weeks.

Wednesday’s statement from attorneys Heather King and Jessica Janicek does not say whether the fetus is viable.

On Friday, state District Judge R.H. Wallace is scheduled to hear arguments about the law and whether to grant the family’s request.

Marlise Muñoz discussed with her family her wish not to have her life prolonged artificially, and she was competent when she made her wishes known, according to the lawsuit.

Few scientific studies

The case has made international headlines. But because of its controversial nature, experts at major medical institutions in the United States have declined to be interviewed about the prognosis for a fetus when the mother is brain-dead.

One of the few relevant studies was published in 2010 by a team of researchers in Heidelberg, Germany. In a survey of medical literature from 1982 to 2010, the team found 19 cases where a pregnant woman was declared brain-dead.

In 12 of those, a viable baby was delivered and survived the postnatal period. The gestational age at the time of brain death varied widely in the cases studied.

“Depending on maternal stability and fetal growth, the decision [to use life support for the mother] must be made on an individual basis,” the study said. “According to our findings, prolonged somatic support can lead to the delivery of a viable child.”

But, the study said, “the number of reported cases is too small to define the rate at which intensive care support of the brain dead mother can result in a healthy infant.”

Furthermore, “neurological, critical care, obstetric, neonatal transplant and ethical staff, along with the patient’s family, should collectively make a decision about future treatment steps.”

In the Fort Worth case, the Muñozes’ attorneys argue that the hospital is misconstruing the Texas Health and Safety Code by failing to read the relevant sections in conjunction with the entirety of the code. They argue that Marlise Muñoz would already be considered dead because there is “irreversible cessation” of spontaneous respiratory and circulatory functions.

The attorneys also argue that the Advance Directives Act does not extend to withholding or withdrawing life support to the unborn child.

The lawsuit further argues that the section of the code that says a person cannot withhold or withdraw life-sustaining treatment from a pregnant patient violates Marlise Muñoz’s 14th Amendment rights with regard to decisions about her own body and equal protection under the law.

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/01/22/5506250/fetus-in-munoz-case-is-distinctly.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

A judge ordered the hospital to remove her from life support today!

Isn't that what they just accepted in the third paragraph.

It seems like it is.

"but given the woman is dead, and the fetus is not there's going to be no argument about her choice right?"

Not really, no.

But, the fetus isn't dead, at least insofar as the mother is, and they describe it as the "possible life of the baby", and I suppose that could be refering to if it is born and the woman is not taken off lifesupport - but a more literal reading in which they're talking about it as possibly being currently alive seems more likely.

There's at least one unambiguously pro-life named poster, so I'm not surprised that there are prolifeanons. One of the interesting things about F!S is that it does seem to be somewhat more conservative than fandom spaces generally. I don't think that's a bad thing.

I do think that OP of this thread is probably trolling, but that's a separate matter.

Huh. I always think of F!S as being very, very liberal.

Oh, it's definitely liberal in general. I'm talking in comparison to fandom generally - I think we're not as liberal as a lot of places and it seems like there's a good amount of conservatives who aren't afraid to speak their minds.

From my perspective, it's pretty conservative. I think I'm one of the more liberal people here, but I usually keep quiet.

I think of F!S as fairly liberal but it probably comes off as more conservative because outside of troll anons generally political discussions and the like seem to stay mostly mildly argumentative at worst, whereas most other 'liberal' parts of the Internet I can think of (like ontd_political and much of Tumblr) the reaction to the same thing would be "Die you cishet white male scum this is why I hate why are you all racists go die in a lego factory."

go die in a lego factory Laughing so hard rn.

omg me too.

I think we're just not all that politically-minded as a group. And fandom can lean SJW-ish these days, so maybe we look conservative in comparison?

I think maybe that's where I was trying to go, yeah.

Well, there are at least two of us on here who are pro-life for religious reasons, but pro-choice for medical reasons; even though I am pro-life, I am definitely in favour of letting the Munoz family grieve their dead properly, and in peace. (Not speaking for the other anon, that's just my opinion.)

Considering how rarely this happens and how widely the circumstances can vary, both in terms of the mother's own wishes and the state of the pregnancy and the fetus, I believe the policy of deciding on a case-by-case basis is exactly right. In this particular case (given what information we have,) I think it's probably just as well, though a sad ending, that the court ordered support terminated.

OTOH, if I was one of those twelve babies who were born to brain-dead mothers and survived, I might well feel differently.

[ SECRET POST #2579 ]

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life