[ SECRET POST #2579 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2579 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]


















15. [SPOILERS for Shingeki No Kyojin / Attack On Titan]



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16. [SPOILERS for A Series of Unfortunate Events]




















[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

















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17. [WARNING for child sexual abuse]



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18. [WARNING for pedophilia]

[The Venture Bros.]





















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #368.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

I'm finding this recent case where in Texas really interesting in what in unveils about pro-choice rhetroic.

Executive summary is that a braindead woman is pregnant.

Well you'd think, there may be some ethical issus surronding keeping her 'breathing' because the baby is probably going to be braindamaged and so on, but given the woman is dead, and the fetus is not there's going to be no argument about her choice right?

Apparently not, her choice to have a DNR, even though she is dead, is more important than the possible life of the baby because reasons and if you disagree you must be a man and hate women.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[chardmonster]

There's a prolifeanon?

Here's a recent story about this case.

Fetus in Muñoz case is “distinctly abnormal,” attorneys say

By Elizabeth Campbell

liz@star-telegram.com

FORT WORTH — Attorneys for the family of a pregnant Haltom City woman who has been on life support at John Peter Smith Hospital for eight weeks issued a statement late Wednesday that the fetus is “distinctly abnormal.”

The 22-week-old fetus’s lower extremities are deformed and it is impossible to determine its gender, the attorneys for the woman’s husband, Erick Muñoz, said in an emailed statement.

“The fetus suffers from hydrocephalus [water on the brain]. It also appears that there are further abnormalities, including a possible heart problem, that cannot be specifically determined due to the immobile nature of Mrs. Muñoz’s deceased body,” the statement said.

The fetus, which was deprived of oxygen for “an indeterminate length of time, is gestating within a dead and deteriorating body as the horrified family looks on,” the attorneys said.

Marlise Muñoz, 33, was 14 weeks pregnant when she collapsed Nov. 26. She was taken to JPS, where doctors told her husband that she was brain-dead. He and other relatives asked that life support be removed.

JPS officials refused, citing a state law requiring that a pregnant woman remain on life support until the fetus is viable, usually at 24 to 26 weeks.

Wednesday’s statement from attorneys Heather King and Jessica Janicek does not say whether the fetus is viable.

On Friday, state District Judge R.H. Wallace is scheduled to hear arguments about the law and whether to grant the family’s request.

Marlise Muñoz discussed with her family her wish not to have her life prolonged artificially, and she was competent when she made her wishes known, according to the lawsuit.

Few scientific studies

The case has made international headlines. But because of its controversial nature, experts at major medical institutions in the United States have declined to be interviewed about the prognosis for a fetus when the mother is brain-dead.

One of the few relevant studies was published in 2010 by a team of researchers in Heidelberg, Germany. In a survey of medical literature from 1982 to 2010, the team found 19 cases where a pregnant woman was declared brain-dead.

In 12 of those, a viable baby was delivered and survived the postnatal period. The gestational age at the time of brain death varied widely in the cases studied.

“Depending on maternal stability and fetal growth, the decision [to use life support for the mother] must be made on an individual basis,” the study said. “According to our findings, prolonged somatic support can lead to the delivery of a viable child.”

But, the study said, “the number of reported cases is too small to define the rate at which intensive care support of the brain dead mother can result in a healthy infant.”

Furthermore, “neurological, critical care, obstetric, neonatal transplant and ethical staff, along with the patient’s family, should collectively make a decision about future treatment steps.”

In the Fort Worth case, the Muñozes’ attorneys argue that the hospital is misconstruing the Texas Health and Safety Code by failing to read the relevant sections in conjunction with the entirety of the code. They argue that Marlise Muñoz would already be considered dead because there is “irreversible cessation” of spontaneous respiratory and circulatory functions.

The attorneys also argue that the Advance Directives Act does not extend to withholding or withdrawing life support to the unborn child.

The lawsuit further argues that the section of the code that says a person cannot withhold or withdraw life-sustaining treatment from a pregnant patient violates Marlise Muñoz’s 14th Amendment rights with regard to decisions about her own body and equal protection under the law.

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/01/22/5506250/fetus-in-munoz-case-is-distinctly.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[kaijinscendre]

A judge ordered the hospital to remove her from life support today!

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[ill_omened]

Isn't that what they just accepted in the third paragraph.

It seems like it is.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

There's at least one unambiguously pro-life named poster, so I'm not surprised that there are prolifeanons. One of the interesting things about F!S is that it does seem to be somewhat more conservative than fandom spaces generally. I don't think that's a bad thing.

I do think that OP of this thread is probably trolling, but that's a separate matter.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

Considering how rarely this happens and how widely the circumstances can vary, both in terms of the mother's own wishes and the state of the pregnancy and the fetus, I believe the policy of deciding on a case-by-case basis is exactly right. In this particular case (given what information we have,) I think it's probably just as well, though a sad ending, that the court ordered support terminated.

OTOH, if I was one of those twelve babies who were born to brain-dead mothers and survived, I might well feel differently.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

Did you hear about how the baby is so deformed they can't even tell what sex it is? That it has fluid in its brain. That its stomach is messed up.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt but i feel like this argument leads down a path i would be extremely cautious about

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

oh, yeah, this thread is going to be fantastic

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

Uh, yeah. She's not being kept alive because of 'pro-choice', she's being kept alive because of anti-abortion laws. So, unsure of what you're driving at? Pretty sure Pro-life never bids itself as pro-choice, lol.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

Hasn't this happened before? I feel like I remember a similar case from years ago.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

I'm confused. How is this pro-choice?

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[siofrabunnies]

No, you can be a woman and hate women, too.

IMO, you have the right to decide what happens to your body after death, including not to be used as an incubator, especially if the baby is extremely unlikely to survive after birth.

How about we find someone else who didn't have a DNR and put the baby in their body to develop? After all, they're dead. What do their wishes matter?

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

I've seen people throwing the hugest shitfit that ever shitfitted about this because apparently a (brain)dead woman's wish not to be kept on life support is more important than the LIVING baby that will be killed if she ISN'T kept on life support till it's viable. I mean, they aren't going to try and keep her hanging around for years. Just until the baby can be delivered, and then they would let her go peacefully. It's really bizarre to me how incredibly ANGRY so many people are that some folks want to let the baby live. This isn't even a matter of bodily integrity or the right not to have a child you don't want. The kid WAS wanted. There was NO decision to abort---it was going to be carried to term.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

...you realize that the fetus is already confirmed to have brain swelling, terrible lower body deformities and a host of other defects from being housed inside of a corpse, right? if you can't see what's absolutely nightmarish about this entire situation or understand the horror that her family is feeling every day then I don't know what to tell you. of course, you're probably trollin' anyway so whatever

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[iceyred]

This is a very sad case. I'm usually anti-abortion, but the woman is dead. The children of brain dead women seem to die in utero, or soon after birth. Given what seems to be extreme brain damage and other issues with the child, it is not likely to have a long life. Given that, I think it would be a mercy to end the suffering of all involved.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, this case horrifies me. A baby growing inside a corpse is pure nightmare fuel. Not beautiful, not proper. Just thinking about it makes me nauseous.

The last thing I want if I die is to be kept artificially alive so that my meat finally has the only use most pro-lifers seem to think a woman's body has when pregnant.

It doesn't help that I'm already child-free because the idea of pregnancy is disgusting to me...but even so, just imagining a child growing in a corpse sounds like the plot to a super violent horror anime or Silent Hill or something. *shudders*

Technically you can be pro-life and not hate women...

[(Anonymous)]

Sort of a side point, but you can be a woman, not hate women, and pro-life. I'm pro-choice, but I know pro-lifers who really do see it as murder, not as the government getting to decide what they do with their bodies. I don't see it as murder, personally, and I DO think a lot of politicians just want to decide what I get to do with my body. But... pro-life doesn't have to be about hating women. Necessarily.

However, in this case, I really can't see any logical reason other than political motivations to keep the woman alive. Assuming the fetus made it to term, it wouldn't have survived.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

A severely damaged and deformed fetus being incubated in the body of a dead woman. Why anyone would want to prolong this situation is beyond me. What possible life are you even talking about?

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

Uhm, the baby IS NON-VIABLE. And keeping a 'dead' women alive as a incubator is gross. Especially when her family wants to respect her wishes.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[tabaqui]

Just my two cents.... Everything about this case is revolting to me. Absolutely and utterly revolting. She should never have been put on life support. Period.

Slightly off topic rant on terminology:

[making_excuses]

As someone who is used to different terminology in her own language Pro life and Pro choice always trip me up, in Norwegian you are either: Pro self decided abortion or actually there is not a lot of people running around being completely against abortion, but they would be called Con self decided abortion.

I had more, but that really did not belong here anyway...

Anyway, I believe in the right for everyone to decide over their own body and especially in this case where the fetus is clearly too sick to survive long then just let the poor woman die. The argument would be slightly different if the fetus was healthy, but I would still let the family decide, it is not a choice any government has the right to make.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

Have you even read the news reports going around today? The Hospital itself admits the woman is brain dead and medical evidence shows the baby is highly unlikely to be viable outside the woman's body (which is essentially a corpse at this point). Even the writers of this damn law said it wasn't designed for this situation. The judge made the right call in ordering her taken off LJ so the family can FINALLY grieve.

But don't worry, that horrid family that wants her and the baby taken off LJ will likely be hit with millions of dollars of medical bills that the Hospital and the Insurance companies will likely never pay out and they'll drown in years and years of debt to satify your taste for anti - choice, 'all women are automatically incubators, even in death' thirst for justice and revenge for this poor woman who never wanted to be kept alive by extordianry means and who's baby likely never had a chance once the she stopped breathing for an hour in the first place.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[(Anonymous)]

The rhetoric in these threads - coming from BOTH sides - always tires me.

Re: When pro-choice is anti-life

[diet_poison]

I'm pretty pro-life (depending on how you define it...I hate abortion but I don't favor legalizing it, etc., it's complicated) but from what I've read (and I don't know, don't take my word for it) the fetus was so deformed that it basically was going to die anyway.

Otherwise, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.