[ SECRET POST #2580 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2580 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 082 secrets from Secret Submission Post #369.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[inkdust]

Interesting. I like the potential explanation for why they look less dwarf-y than the others. But I'm a little confused about why the nephews would also be part elf (unless the family relationship is different in the book, I haven't read the book).

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, unless OP meant to say ALL of Thrain's children were by the Elven lady, maybe "hooked up with Thror" would have been a more coherent headcanon.

[inkdust]

Maybe OP actually meant Thror. That would make it work. Otherwise Thorin would be a full half elf, and you'd think that would be a lot more visible.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I was thinking Thranduil's mom was Thrain's only wife, yeah, sorry that was, in hindsight, totally unclear. But it has to have been Thrain, not Thror, because Thrain looked totally dwarf-y.

Re: OP

[inkdust]

Oh, that's a good point. And I was totally confusing my family tree structure a minute ago and was trying to make Fili and Kili Thorin's first cousins instead of nephews. That makes sense.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe it skips a generation.

Anyway, OP, it's your headcanon and you do what you do, but in Tolkien's legendarium half-elven children have such... unique properties that I think your headcanon would be better served if the crossing had occurred much further back in the bloodline and the superficial resemblance is now surfacing as some kind of throwback. Otherwise... complications would arise.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

My understanding is that except for the descendants of Earendil and Elwing, half-elves are the non-elf species with some elvish traits. The line of the Princes of Dol Amroth is supposed to have some elvish blood, and there's nothing particularly uncanny about them.

It would be more probable slightly less improbable for Thrain's wife to have been part-dwarf part-elf, but that doesn't explain the seething animosity with Thranduil.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

It's hard to say, because the descendants of Luthien/Beren and Idril/Tuor were practically the only half-elven cases in existence until Mithrellas's son came along. As I recall, Dior, Elwing, Earendil, Elrond and Elros all had the ability to choose between being part of the Eldar or of Men. We can't say for sure if the first Prince of Dol Amroth had the choice - maybe he didn't because his elven parent wasn't of high lineage, or maybe he did and chose to be mortal and that was the end of that.

Buuuuut those are all Elf/Man pairings and Dwarves are not counted among the Children of Iluvatar (more like The Adopted Children), so who knows? I would think crossbreeding with elves would at the very least have implications on the offspring's life expectancy though. Or is that why movie!Thorin looks so youthful for his supposed age? :)

Hey, Oropher died in the Second Age, thousands of years before Thorin's birth. His widow could have hooked up with Thorin's great-great-great-great-grandfather and it would still have worked!

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Did Dior get a chance to choose, or did he just get killed?

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Well, he did get killed, so maybe he never lived long enough to find out. Anyway, what would have happened to him if he hadn't gotten killed and yet never had a choice? Would he have started aging and eventually died, or just have defaulted to Elven?

Re: OP

[silverr]

I wanted to say that this discussion just makes me grin and grin.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's fun to be a little irreverent with the professor's creations sometimes. With love, of course :D

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Ugh, I can't remember where, but I remember reading that human-elf crosses default to human, because humans have the Gift of Men, so it's supposed to be the better deal.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

According to the Silmarillion the requirement for half-Elves to choose didn't come around until Earendil and Elwing showed up in Valinor, by which point Dior was already dead.

Re: OP

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

Which could mean he got the choice after he died, because if he was treated as an Elf up until then, his soul would have been staying in Mandos, where Námo could go and ask him which he wants to do - stay there, or head out to wherever humans go.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I imagine there would've had to be some sort of decision to determine what happened to his spirit. As far as I've seen canon doesn't really say anything about it either way, though, and there seems to be a lot of debate about what Dior's ultimate fate was.