[ SECRET POST #2580 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2580 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 082 secrets from Secret Submission Post #369.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. http://i.imgur.com/cRW8GR3.jpg

[inkdust]

Interesting. I like the potential explanation for why they look less dwarf-y than the others. But I'm a little confused about why the nephews would also be part elf (unless the family relationship is different in the book, I haven't read the book).

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, unless OP meant to say ALL of Thrain's children were by the Elven lady, maybe "hooked up with Thror" would have been a more coherent headcanon.

[inkdust]

Maybe OP actually meant Thror. That would make it work. Otherwise Thorin would be a full half elf, and you'd think that would be a lot more visible.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I was thinking Thranduil's mom was Thrain's only wife, yeah, sorry that was, in hindsight, totally unclear. But it has to have been Thrain, not Thror, because Thrain looked totally dwarf-y.

Re: OP

[inkdust]

Oh, that's a good point. And I was totally confusing my family tree structure a minute ago and was trying to make Fili and Kili Thorin's first cousins instead of nephews. That makes sense.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe it skips a generation.

Anyway, OP, it's your headcanon and you do what you do, but in Tolkien's legendarium half-elven children have such... unique properties that I think your headcanon would be better served if the crossing had occurred much further back in the bloodline and the superficial resemblance is now surfacing as some kind of throwback. Otherwise... complications would arise.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

My understanding is that except for the descendants of Earendil and Elwing, half-elves are the non-elf species with some elvish traits. The line of the Princes of Dol Amroth is supposed to have some elvish blood, and there's nothing particularly uncanny about them.

It would be more probable slightly less improbable for Thrain's wife to have been part-dwarf part-elf, but that doesn't explain the seething animosity with Thranduil.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

It's hard to say, because the descendants of Luthien/Beren and Idril/Tuor were practically the only half-elven cases in existence until Mithrellas's son came along. As I recall, Dior, Elwing, Earendil, Elrond and Elros all had the ability to choose between being part of the Eldar or of Men. We can't say for sure if the first Prince of Dol Amroth had the choice - maybe he didn't because his elven parent wasn't of high lineage, or maybe he did and chose to be mortal and that was the end of that.

Buuuuut those are all Elf/Man pairings and Dwarves are not counted among the Children of Iluvatar (more like The Adopted Children), so who knows? I would think crossbreeding with elves would at the very least have implications on the offspring's life expectancy though. Or is that why movie!Thorin looks so youthful for his supposed age? :)

Hey, Oropher died in the Second Age, thousands of years before Thorin's birth. His widow could have hooked up with Thorin's great-great-great-great-grandfather and it would still have worked!

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Did Dior get a chance to choose, or did he just get killed?

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Well, he did get killed, so maybe he never lived long enough to find out. Anyway, what would have happened to him if he hadn't gotten killed and yet never had a choice? Would he have started aging and eventually died, or just have defaulted to Elven?

Re: OP

[silverr]

I wanted to say that this discussion just makes me grin and grin.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Ugh, I can't remember where, but I remember reading that human-elf crosses default to human, because humans have the Gift of Men, so it's supposed to be the better deal.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

According to the Silmarillion the requirement for half-Elves to choose didn't come around until Earendil and Elwing showed up in Valinor, by which point Dior was already dead.

[(Anonymous)]

How could it have been a well-kept secret if she had THREE CHILDREN with him? You'd think the cat would be out of the bag by that point. What, did he keep her cloistered in some secret royal part of Erebor? Lord knows why she was up for it, don't elves only love once?

For my part I think they're just funny-looking Dwarves. XD If there was some different blood in the family tree I'd be more inclined to think ti was human!

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe this is what happens when dwarves get too inbred: they turn out hot in human eyes.

[(Anonymous)]

I've an absurd love for this comment.

[gondremark]

Well, that goes a long way to explain their relative beardlessness.

[brandiweed.livejournal.com]

I had heard (can't remember where) that the filmmakers intended Thorin's short beard to be a sign of mourning, like a woman shaving her head.

As for Fili and Kili-- they're really, really young. What looks like manly stubble to us on Kili is probably the dwarf equivalent of a dirtstache.

[(Anonymous)]

I had heard (can't remember where) that the filmmakers intended Thorin's short beard to be a sign of mourning, like a woman shaving her head.

Shit, that's kind of awesome. I don't love all the choices they make (understatement) but I respect the huge quantities of geeky thoughtfulness that go into these movies.

[(Anonymous)]

agreed! 'geeky thoughtfulness' is just it...fans can debate headcanons they have based on canon till the cows come home and have a good old time, I don't begrudge PJ being in the position to make his headcanons into a big boomy movie. XD And Weta Workshop is a revelation.

[(Anonymous)]

Also, along with Fili and Kili being young, it would be kind of a social faux pas for them to have great big beards when their uncle keeps his short. (also, Kili's an archer, so there's all KINDA ouch that could happen if he had a long beard.)

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

The connection about Thorin's short beard and it being a symbol of grief was something Richard Armitage really got attached to the idea of. He's a Hobbit fan of old himself, so he wanted a good excuse for only having his own fuzz when he's playing the king of the Longbeards.

Fíli I feel gets away with it with the braidstaches.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

It's not the beardlessness, though -- it's the rest of the facial features. (Not sure about Fili, but Thorin and especially Kili were very light on facial prosthetics. You can tell.)

[(Anonymous)]

Best headcanon ever. I'm adopting it and now demand fic.