fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2584 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2584 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Danball Senki Wars]

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02.

[Harry Potter]

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03.

[Burn Notice]

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04.

[The Island of Doctor Moreau]

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05.

[Papers, Please]

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06.

[Star Trek: The Next Generation]

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07.

[Pretty Little Liars]

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08.

[KILL LA KILL]

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09.

[Labyrinth, The Hobbit]

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10.

[The Hobbit]

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11.

[The Hobbit]

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12.

[The Kiss of the Spider Woman]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 029 secrets from Secret Submission Post #369.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Yeah. I definitely think that men's problems are serious and need to be fixed but it helps to acknowledge the source and most of them can be traced back to misogyny coming back around to bite men in the ass. Doesn't make the problems any less painful for the men who have to live with them but a problem can be solved more effectively when you acknowledge the cause.

Yup. The patriarchy hurts men too.

That's one of the reasons I think MRAs are so off-base. They tend to frame it as women vs. men, when most of the problems they complain about are more a matter of men vs. other men.

I am a feminist and a woman, but I absolutely hate this rad!fem strategy as framing men as the only players in gender politics.

Women vs. men is far too simplified. It's sexism vs. equality (both sides can have men and women)

See below. tl;dr I completely agree with this estimate (it's why I call myself a feminist), but saying that men and men's issues aren't as important as women's issues is just way off base these days.

And that said, often times women are just as responsible for perpetuating patriarchal standards (especially with regard to how men are allowed to behave and present themselves) as men are.

"it helps to acknowledge the source and most of them can be traced back to misogyny coming back around to bite men in the ass"

How exactly does it help, in our opinion? Other than to distribute blame, I can't see how this is a helpful attitude?

In my experience it seems like the way this point is brought up is used only to justify why issues pertaining to mens rights are not a problem for feminists. it's sits on the bingo card somewhere between "Victim Blaming" (It's their Own Fault)" and the age old "But X have to deal with this too" derailment tactic. (Brought up as an attempt to shift focus from the problem on to something that they actually care about) It doesn't matter who caused this problem and saying "women didn't do it to you" is, while technically accurate, utterly useless*. Focus on solving the problem, not on who started it.

That's just my 2p based on how I've seen this argument used. My original question was not a hypothetical, tho: How exactly does it help, in our opinion?

*I will say "Women didn't do it to you" is an adequate response to the people who say things like "Fucking feminists caused the situation with men getting screwed in marital court." Shifting blame back on to the patriarchy is a valid tactic when people are trying to shift blame onto the feminists, but in discussions like this it just seems to come off as rhetoric along the same lines we've all seem misogynists used.

Well, technically the current issues with the marital court (in the US, at least) were caused by feminists, but other then that, you have a point.

How so?

I may be willing to concede that the overall lack of interest (from the majority of vocal feminists) in changing the situation may have lead to the unpleasant situation persisting, but how do you get to the answer "It's their fault?" Not saying you're wrong, per se, I just don't see it.

It was feminists in the early 1900's (I think is when it was) that advocated for changing the laws in marital courts in favor of the mothers when it came to custody, payments, things like that.

Hm. I'm not so sure you can pin that on feminism. They lobbied for (necessary) change in a blunt and simple time and change happened in the most blunt and simple terms possible. getting any social change to happen back then would have been like performing surgery with vaguely pointy rocks. "That arm needs to come off, let's give it a whack with this. Oh look he survived. Success!". Change happened but we can't expect it to have been clean or neat. I hold to my opinion that the fact that the system has not changed since is in part down to the fact that very few people seem to be interested in changing it.

Also, in regards to pinning this one on the feminists, it should be noted that the only reason these changes occurred in this way was because by the blunt and simple mind set of the time "Women need to take care of the babies, and we can't have women working a mans job, so let's change the divorce laws to support this." Women wanted change, Men wanted change that kept women in their roles, ergo a simple but inelegant solution was smashed together that some time later leaves men in a shitty position.

Also, women did need a better situation back then and the idea of blaming them for the mess left by the "solution" seems a bit like blaming the freed black slaves for the fact that no-one was doing the gardening. A change was necessary. we needed a better solution sure, but we also couldn't have let things stay as they were.

Finally, blaming feminism today for the actions of those women is as ridiculous as blaming men today for the sexism back then. Remember my "Blunt and simple" criticism of that time? that does not just to the men folk. Early suffragettes, while campaigning for womens rights also started up the white feather brigade that was designed to shame men who did not fight in the war. People back then just thought of things differently, and society has just moved on since then.

Wow. TLDR. Sorry.

[ SECRET POST #2584 ]

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

Re: Feminism MRA and Men

Re: Feminism MRA and Men