fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2609 ]

[ SECRET POST #2609 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2609 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 076 secrets from Secret Submission Post #372.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Because up until a few years ago, most of that last type of fandom conversation you described - discussing racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. in popular media - was already happening. Talking about the nature of gender distribution in characters of a show, talking about the influence of racial tensions in movies, how homosexuality plays such an important hidden role in modern culture...all of this was happening way before Tumblr, and while it was happening in many places I saw it most on LJ and DW. The thing is? Back then, it was an actual discussion, and it was happening everywhere. Nowadays, it happens predominantly - in some fandoms, only - on Tumblr.

Yeah, every fandom has its share of crazy userbase. The reason why people hate on Tumblr, though, is because that crazy userbase more often than not takes over the fandom, or at least takes over the discussion and turns it into an all-or-nothing shouting match. The structure of Tumblr is great for spreading things fast, but it is not one that enables deep discussions (those that happen usually do so in spite of the website, not because of it), and it is one that is ultimately based on people shouting into a metaphorical void and hoping someone shouts back (which doesn't always happen, depending on what tags you use and how many followers you have).

One of the arguments I've heard in favor of Tumblr is that it "gives everyone a voice". I call bullshit on this because a.) most other fandom spaces already gave everyone plenty of voice and b.) this particular fandom space isn't one that gives people 'a voice', but gives certain voices the most attention and drowns out everyone and everything else.

I'm not saying Tumblr doesn't have its upsides. Half of us commenting on this thread have a Tumblr, myself included, and Tumblr can be a lot of fun. The thing is, though, it can only really be fun within reason, but it can also be incredibly stressful, if you say the wrong word, get the attention of the wrong user, and then BOOM you're being bombarded with hundreds or thousands of vicious ask messages and no one listening to you if or when you explain yourself or apologize or correct a misunderstanding. It's not that they don't care - it's that they don't see, because the entire structure of Tumblr makes that the hard part.

And, I'm not saying other fandom spaces don't have their downsides - for all that I've been on Tumblr, I have yet to be driven out of it due to exclusivity and BNF-ganging-up, something which has has happened to me on a private archive-forum site. LJ and DW have seen their own fair share of crap, too.

The reason why I come down harder on Tumblr, though, despite the fact it has the same things as all these other fandom spaces? It's because of how much weight they give to the pros and cons.

Yeah, every fandom space has its share of crazy users, but Tumblr is where they get the most attention and (negative) influence. Yeah, every fandom space has its share of wank, but on Tumblr the only thing you can really do is wait for it to die down - most every other site, there are also ways to counteract the wank, diffuse the tension, or open up a genuine discussion that involves everyone in a given community, not just whoever has the most followers. And yes, I am well aware that Tumblr has just as much benign things like fic, art, etc. on it as other fandoms - but not only are these so splintered and difficult to find in comparison to other sites, but they get drowned in wank much more easily, and in many fandom circles it is much harder to avoid them while still being able to access the fandom content you want.

All of this, by the way, comes before the fact the Tumblr user interface is kind of ridiculous and one-track minded, yet expected to somehow still be used for every track and everything in fandom. Yes, I know there are extensions, but the fact that there are so many is a sign of how messed up the site is, and makes the site inaccessible for those whose computers don't get along with extensions, and honestly still leave way too many problems that are ultimately rooted in the structure and interface of the site.

And I really do get the frustration of how if something is only liked by young women, then no matter how popular or successful it is, it gets derided for ridiculous reasons that male-popular media just doesn't get, even when they're pretty much the same. The fact that so many people blame Tumblr's nonsense on its young female userbase is irritating as hell, sometimes downright infuriating...but that many people point fingers at them doesn't negate all the other, much more valid, reasons to hate on the site.

I'm not even saying the site is worthless - again, I have a Tumblr, and I actually use it every now and then. But like many other fans here, I resent that it's become the primary fandom platform, because it has had a far greater and far faster effect of change on fandom than almost any other platform, and this change is one that did bring a few pros but brought a lot more cons to fandom overall. I don't think it's the death of fandom, but I am eagerly awaiting for when fandom moves on from Tumblr to something a little easier and more pleasant to interact in and with.

Thank you. Agreed completely.

I know what you mean when it comes to saying the wrong word. I reblogged a post and added a comment about how eating disorder posts are almost exclusively about starving or purging and weighing too little, and I said that overeating is a disorder and being morbidly obese also kills people, and I was promptly told to jump off a cliff (and 48 variations of that sentiment). I've gotten spammed with bloody fetuses after reblogging some pro-choice posts. And Tumblr's format makes it just about impossible to completely wipe a post (something I'm both grateful and regretful for). I don't disagree with you. I'm just sick of seeing people speak as if Tumblr is the worst thing that could've happened to fandom when it's basically my favorite site.

tbh, I think the fact that you really like and enjoy tumblr but people here like to deride it has something to do with your opinions... I mean, I get that. It would make me sad too if something I like was commonly being described as the scourge of fandom and whatnot. But I think that your reasoning behind why people like it is very faulty.

I'm one of the crowd who doesn't particularly like what tumblr has done to fandom, and it has nothing to do with the age but like said above, you can't really communicate. You can't edit a post and then everybody sees the edit - because your original post is already all over the place and will be forever more. Tumblr is mostly a bunch of people shouting into the void, and that lack of discussion also doesn't foster people developing actual analytical skills or the ability to HAVE discussions. On LJ, because there's a stronger sense of community, there is the possibility of developing a community-specific culture where new members can learn accepted ways of interaction and behavior within the context of whatever given community, and young people can also be (sometimes!) positively influenced by the older generation of fans, because voices are heard. Whereas on tumblr nobody has to learn anything or adapt or become part of a real community at all, because the only borders of the tumblr community are tumblr itself.

So I guess I feel like it's not fair to blame misogyny for what's really a format and generational problem, at the end of the day.

That's fair. I'm not saying that the only reason people hate Tumblr is because of sexism or ageism, but the sheer magnitude of it is very telling, to the point where I've started avoiding people who openly deride the site, especially the people who disparage it for the reasons I made an account in the first place.

I'm just going to contradict one thing. The experience I had with LJ (which was my only other fandom site, so it's my only basis of comparison) was one of several different communities within the same fandom, which made me get bored easily because it was the same thing over and over whereas Tumblr has the tag tracking system and no barriers between different interests of fandom, so I basically have to blacklist like crazy and even then I see a lot of things I don't give two cents about.

I think I'm just defending it so hard because I don't see...well, anyone else doing that, really.

I am sorry to hear about all that, and I can get how that kind of resentment would build up over time.

And honestly? I like Tumblr, too. I just hate that it's now the primary fandom platform, and in some places the only - or as good as the only - fandom platform. The kind of interactivity I used to easily get in most or all of my fandom spaces, I now find predominantly here - most journalsite based communities are dying or dead, and with no viable replacement (which I don't count Tumblr as one, as it doesn't enable anywhere near the same level of interaction as journal sites, forums, etc.)

I'm not old, but I have spent almost half my life - over the last decade - in fandom, and the type of fandom I grew up on is quickly evaporating, and much of that is due to Tumblr...and I dread the possibility that when fandom moves on from Tumblr to something else, the stuff I loved about fandom will die out completely and never come back. :( Fandom will still be around, but not the kind of fandom I want.

So yeah, I resent its popularity much more than I resent the site itself, and this is why.

(I also hate the growth of SJWs, but that's as much correlation as causation in this particular context.)

Nah, I get where you're coming from. I mean, that post was as much a rant as it was an attempt to have a reasonable discussion. It is easier for me, someone who migrated from FF.Net to Twitter to Tumblr, to get used to fandom being like that. I do admit, I spoke out of anger because I'd just had this discussion yesterday and most of today, so I didn't try to see your side or anyone else's. My brain-mouth (or this case, hand) filter is flimsy at best, so I'll put my foot in my mouth a lot over complete misunderstandings.

And if you find me on any other site, feel free to strike up a chat.

migrated from FF.Net to Twitter to Tumblr

That explains so much.

I'm confused as to how fandom works on Twitter. It's 140 characters for post, how...what...?!

Well seeing as most Dragons of Berk fic is on FFN, I guess I'm getting back into it. Same name on there? :)

Nailed it. That is a good and sensible breakdown of the structural issues that make Tumblr FUNCTIONALLY a more hostile place, even given the same userbase. It's built so as to create echo chambers and prevent back-and-forth.

An analogy I used a while back is that, where most fandom spaces run like a cafe or bar, Tumblr is more like a night club. Fun in its own way, but no way to have any kind of conversation beyond a few hard-to-hear snatches, and the only way to get attention is by shouting and chanting, rather than talking.

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[ SECRET POST #2609 ]

I get where you are coming from, but I have to disagree.

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