[ SECRET POST #2616 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2616 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 063 secrets from Secret Submission Post #374.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I don't feel ill, but I do grit my teeth. I pushed myself through the first two books and even watched the first season of the show with my roommate. No. I still think it's a heaping pile of crap, and I can't see the appeal. Besides, I guess, boobs and torture violence.

[(Anonymous)]

When I first read it I hadn't seen the series and I really enjoyed it. A lot of the world building is based on the War of the Roses era and yes, it would have been a really messed up time to be a woman. HBO's focus on sex and boobs and violence has really destroyed it for me though. :( It's very, very gratituitous in the show. To the point that I'm beginning to wonder if I was naive in handwaving it in the books.

[(Anonymous)]

At least the show doesn't handwave the fact that it would be a messed up time to be a woman.

The boobs don't bother me that much, and we get beefcake too (hey nudity how realistic even if no one's got missing teeth), but one little thing does: any kind of camera gaze that shows sex workers being treated badly apparently fully into it when their clients'/bosses' gaze is off them, skeeves me. That's just male fantasy talking. Surely they're going to have some independent kind of mind and existence, but we rarely see that (or it's crying in fear).

[(Anonymous)]

da

Not to get into this old argument, but it's a created world, so the only one who decides if it's a messed up time to be a woman is the author.

I have no problem with a fantasy series that uses a world where it sucks to be a woman, by the way. I just feel that the problems come with how GRRM writes (writing women in sexual terms, even Danaerys, talking about her nipples and shit), how much rape is a focus in so many plot lines, etc. And I think the TV show did have some male nudity but it wasn't lingered upon by the camera like the female nudity constantly is - which is frankly how I saw GRRM's writing act, too.

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't read the books, but they are meant to be a kind of retro European medieval world, with the sexual politics and all. Without that I don't think a lot of people would have a frame of reference, and it would be a much less mainstream book. Yes, I think that would be really interesting, but I don't think it means that someone is necessarily sexist just for writing a world where women are treated similarly to medieval Europe. However, other things you mention could be sexist.

As for the show, yes, it does cater for the normative male sexual gaze more than the het female. This isn't a dealbreaker for me, because it also depends on how the female characters are treated, which is reasonably humanising except as I said, the sex workers often get treated by the camera as pleasure objects without much independent motivation. Of course I could still pick apart the rest of the show, but I'm not feeling extreme nausea over it. YMMV. As for the violence, eh, the Ramsay torture scenes were boooooring to me, but as for the rest, I don't think it tends to gloss over or glamourise what was an essential part of feudal times for the frame of reference we have for medieval history. I get quite annoyed when shows do that, actually.

[(Anonymous)]

SA *Also, the Dany falling in love with her rapist thing, I dunno how the book did it, I wasn't too sickened by the tv version but am open to arguments about it. I guess I see all marriages in societies where women had/have no right to refuse consent, or even to choose their partner, as legalised rape. Women did survive without choices by often coming to care for their husband/abuser. Did the tv show explain this? Not very well.