[ SECRET POST #310 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #310 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 231 secrets from Secret Submission Post #045.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, [ 1 ] not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 ] too big, [ 1 ] rant of extreme hate, [ 1 2 ] people who need to learn to comment; if there is no NEW secret in the image, it might as well be a repeat.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Monday, November 12th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[levikitty.livejournal.com]

33. Does anyone find this the least bit hypocritical? Let's say we are the fascist dictators that everyone thinks we are because we rant supposedly behind people's back.

You people aren't exactly any better.

fandomsecrets is exactly the same way, except you get to hide behind anonymity.

I have no idea why everyone gets this strange image of us. People hardly rant anymore on KHFFR and I don't see half the hate directed at the original, fanficrants.

[(Anonymous)]

No, fandomsecrets is not exactly the same as communities like fanficrants.
Grant it, some secrets at fandomsecrets are designed to criticize behind people's back, but the majority of secrets aren't.
fanficrants and the like are created only to criticize and mock.

[yume-no-kage.livejournal.com]

Actually, thay're created to rant. This is why they're called rant comms. The point is not to mindlessly bash everything you don't agree with, but to point out and talk about various plots/cliches/fanon/mistakes that pop up with regularity within fanfiction. I can't tell you how many writing and characterization tips I've picked up from both FFR and KHFFR while a member of those communities.

[(Anonymous)]

Rant???
No criticizing? No mocking?
You must have a very broad definition of those words.

[yume-no-kage.livejournal.com]

It IS called Kingdom Hearts Fanfic Rants you know. And I didn't say there was NO criticizing or mocking, I was merely correcting you when you said it was ONLY for criticizing or mocking. *shrug* You get some of both, I'll admit, but you'll get the same anywhere.

[(Anonymous)]

So the purpose of a rant community is a benevolent one.
Meant to assist writers and improve the fandom.
Naturally that necessitates singling out writers and slamming their work.
Speaking in generalities just won't do.
Giving the label rant community doesn't change the fact that the primary goal is to mock individuals.

[case]

Isn't the primary goal of a "rant community" I don't know, to rant? To give people a place to let their anger out?

People could just as easily rant about OH MY GOD TOO MUCH DEMYX FIC as bash on a specific author, they just seem to choose not to (or maybe they do, I don't read KHFFR, but you seem to be implying that this is so).

[case]

Or rather, rant != criticizing and mocking individuals -- or at least, not automatically.

"WORK SUUUUUUUUCKS" is a rant.
"KH FIC SUUUUUUUCKS" is a rant.
"THIS PERSON'S KH FIC SUCKS" is ALSO a rant.

Don't blame KHFFR for EXISTING, blame people who post in it.

[yume-no-kage.livejournal.com]

I <3 you Case. You say things better than I can XD

[(Anonymous)]

I don't have a problem with any rant community existing.
Just don't try to come off like the community is created to make a positive contribution to fandom by pointing "out and talk[ing] about various plots/cliches/fanon/mistakes that pop up with regularity within fanfiction."
If you want to criticize, then criticize.
If you want to mock, then mock.
But trying to pass off a rant community as being generally benevolent is a load of crap.

[case]

... actually, no one said that rant communities are generally benevolent. Someone said that you CAN get good things FROM rant communities -- and are you denying that this is true? Of course, there's good with the bad -- but "generally benevolent," I see nowhere. Where are you getting this from? Quote it to me, if you can.

You're the one that started it with "fanficrants and the like are created only to criticize and mock" -- as far as I can tell, you're the only one seeing things entirely in black and white.

[yume-no-kage.livejournal.com]

I don't believe I was speaking in generalities. It's a rant comm. A rant comm is meant to, as I said before above (not quoting verbatim), point out and discuss various plots/cliches/characterization flaws/fanon usage/et cetera that pop up regularly in fanfiction. Sometimes that means critizicing a certain author, though usually they're not that specific, or fic that happened to be the catalyst that spawned the need to rant. Sometimes it's an entire particular genre, like say, Highschool AUs. Not all crit is negative.

It is not the reason nor the point of the community to mock or bash or 'slam' on people's works, as you so put it. Do we get some of that? Yes, I'm not denying that, but it is not the sole reason that the community exists, which you seem to mistakenly believe. Nor is it the goal. The individual rarely has a part in the rant process, as it's honestly considered rude to name names or link back to the fic in question, unless the link is requested in the comments.

Might I ask what the primary goal of secret communities is, in your opinion?

[case]

LOL WANK DUH

[(Anonymous)]

The primary reasons for rant communities is mocking.
Perhaps that wasn't the initial idea, but that's what they've stooped down to.
It's not like I've never read posts in a rant community.

Secret communities?
One reason is to be able to express yourself without being harassed and/or stalked.
Btw, I'm not involved in the written side of fandom, but communities like yours make me feel sorry for many who are.

[yume-no-kage.livejournal.com]

Ha. Right. Needlessly bashing something you're not entirely involved in is just as bad as what you're accusing us of.

You seem naive about secret comms, by the way. People get routinely harassed in comments for the secrets they post. This place is just as mocking and criticizing as any rant community.

[(Anonymous)]

Not bashing.
Just calling a spade, a spade.

I fail to see how having compassion for fanfic writers makes me as bad as fanfic writers who bash their own.

[yume-no-kage.livejournal.com]

I fail to see how railing against the existince of a community you are neither a part of nor particularly read doesn't constitute as bashing.

And considering you were trying to criticize me for 'using generalizations', I find it quite ironic that you are so quick to lump in the community as a whole as a bashing, mocking, criticizing hive-mind of scum and villiany. And yes, I know you didn't say that, but that is the clear impression I am getting. I personally have never ranted with the intent of bashing anyone, and neither have my other mods, or many of the active members of the community.

Next time, try learning a thing or two about both the community and the people involved before whining for the sake of whining. Anon bitching isn't going to make us go away.

[(Anonymous)]

Hive-mind.
I couldn't have said it better.

[yume-no-kage.livejournal.com]

Aaaand again we go with the generalizations. You aren't reading a single word I'm typing, are you, except for a choice phrase or two that you can seize upon and try to nitpick to death or turn against me in some outlandish fashion.

Would you consider your comments as bashing myself, since you are so against the community I am a Mod of? I haven't bashed you at all. In fact, I've tried my utmost to be polite. Can you say the same?

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, so you want someone who is a member of that community? Well here's one. And it is a hive-mind, of the worst sort. It promotes ill will in the fandom and although it might make a few improvements in people's work here and there, you can bet that it's stopped a hell of a lot of other people from contributing to the fandom at all.

Ranting about whatever is all well and good. We've all had those "here look at this badfic isn't it hilarious" conversations. But I, personally, keep them as conversations on MSN. They don't go anywhere public. No author can be rooting around and find them and end up feeling like crap.

At the end of the day it's like bitching behind someone's back at school. You might think it's funny, but all you're doing is making them feel like shit and making everyone else who might not agree with you take up the herd mentality and lie and say "Wordy McWord with a side of Word" because they don't want to be ostracized too. And yeah, you can say it's just for fun, and you can say it doesn't effect this person or this person or this person, but how the fuck can you count out the people it does effect? You can't.

If you can't say anything nice? Try not saying anything at all.

[yume-no-kage.livejournal.com]

Have I ever said a single mean thing to you in all the time I've been in the comm? Even before I was a Mod? I don't even know who you are because you insist on posting anon, and despite the fact that I and the other mods have repeatedly stated that we want you to talk to us when you're unhappy, and have listed our contact info.

I've disagreed with members of the comm before. Hell, I've disagreed with the other Mods before, on numerous occasions. Even if there is a general opinion about something, we're still people, with our own thoughts and opinions on things. If you disagree with something, speak up for heaven's sake. It's a rant community. People post their opinions there. It's not like what we talk about is set as the fandom standard, at least in my opinion. People can ignore it, after all, we're only one community in the entire KH fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

I never said I was one of the people effected by some of the things said in the comm. I'm not unhappy - to be honest, I could care less. I'm only really a member for the lulz. But when you claim to think it doesn't effect anyone, I feel the need to speak up. I do know of people that it has effected in the past. I know people that hate the fact it even exists. I know people who, although never directly targeted, have had to actively block KHFFR from their browsers so they can continue to be happily involved in fandom. So the source of my 'unhappiness' is that the comm still exists. Tell me that's an email you'd respond well to.

In truth it's not just KHFFR that does this - the wankmeme (although that's pretty much dead now, thankfully), the sporking comms, etc. I tend to lump them all together though, considering the regular contributing members at KHFFR.

I'm sure you have disagreed with members before. I have too. But it doesn't help that the overall image on the comment threads is either a list of "Word" reponses or "IAWTP". KHFFR has six hundred members - have you never thought about the fact that out of those six hundred, you get less than a hundred of them responding regularly and generally agreeing on things - or being confident enough to disagree. What about the other five hundred? It's great to say "if you disagree, speak up" but when there's a close band group of regulars constantly saying "yes" to things, it's probably terrifying to step up and say "no."

And just to let you know: the few times I've disagreed and spoken up? I've been called a troll. Not that it particularly bothered me, but if my disagreement is just going to be passed off as lulz stirring or flames, then there's no point in me bothering to give it. So I don't.

Yes, you are one comm. I don't really understand how you manage to effect the fandom as much as you do - I didn't even know what the hell "KHFFR" was until I'd been in the fandom for over six months - but the point is that you do effect the fandom, and, considering your reaction here, probably a lot more than you realise.