[ SECRET POST #2637 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2637 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.










Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #377.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[dazzledfirestar]

Mm. Isn't it funny how the break up pairing tends toward the het or interracial pairings... very interesting, don't you think?

By funny and interesting I mean, fandom, your gross misogyny and racism are showing again.

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't it funny how the break up pairing tends toward the het

...Because those are the ones that are canon. Not saying people don't do it in a misogynistic way, but that's kind of a silly argument.

[dazzledfirestar]

If it were just breaking up a canon pairing, sure. But what the anon above is pointing toward is more OOC character bashing stuff than just "I feel the need to address this canon relationship". If it were that, there'd be no need for, say, Pepper Potts to become inexplicably abusively bitchy.

[(Anonymous)]

I dunno, I read mostly slash and quite a few ships have a guy as the relationship breaker. Not exclusive to sex, unfortunately. (Though seeing a lady as the third party does grate a lot more, I'll admit.)

[dazzledfirestar]

My question is, who's the other guy most times though? Because most of what I see is the male POC characters (if there are any but that's a whole other kettle of fish) tend to get slotted into this role the same way the female ones do.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Not really. Mainly because most slash fandoms are White Dudes Central, or anime in which they're all meant to be Japanese.

[dazzledfirestar]

I'm sorry, is that supposed to be better?

[(Anonymous)]

DA

It's okay to just admit that you were wrong; you don't have to keep moving the goalposts every other comment in an attempt to win this argument.

[dazzledfirestar]

I'm not moving the goal posts, sunshine. I'm sort if having the choice between pic characters not existing in fic or being represented as an evil hurdle for your precious white boys to get over doesn't seen like parts of the same issue to you but it is.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Goalpost moving, a timeline:

dazzledfirestar Claim #1: "the break up pairing tends toward the het or interracial pairings" because fandom is sexist and misogynistic

Counterargument #1: Most canon pairings are het, so break up pairings are mostly het.

dfs Claim #2: The problem isn't that the break up pairing is het, but that the female half of the pairing is character-bashed. (goalpost moved!)

Counterargument #2: Breaking up an established pairing isn't exclusive to het; I see it a lot in m/m slash, too.

dfs Claim #1.5: When this happens in m/m slash, it's usually a PoC dude who gets shafted. (goalpost not moved)

Counterargument #2.5: Actually, I've mostly seen this happen with white/white slash pairings or Asian/Asian slash pairings, which are some of the biggest fandom pairings.

dfs Claim #3: Sexism! Racism! QED! (goalpost moved again!)


None of the anons above has tried to argue that there isn't racism or misogyny in fandom, and I'm certainly not arguing that myself. But I'm also not at all persuaded by your claim that breakup pairings disproportionately involve women and/or POC (taking into consideration Anon #1's point that any story breaking up a canon pairing is automatically more likely to be breaking up a het pairing).

Your insistence that interracial pairings involving male POC are more prone to breakup fic is especially puzzling to me, since I can only think of a single fandom supporting your claim: Teen Wolf has a bunch of Scott/Stiles or Danny/Stiles breakup fics with a Derek/Stiles endgame. As counterexamples, though, see Welcome to Night Vale (Cecil/Carlos is the fandom OTP), Leverage (Hardison/Parker is more likely to become an OT3 than to break up in fic), Star Trek (Sulu/Chekov is a major pairing that's rarely broken up), The Losers (ditto Cougar/Jensen), and One Direction (Zayn/Liam is probably the second most popular pairing, and it's rarely broken up).

If you can provide some examples besides the abovementioned Teen Wolf that back up your position, I'd be happy to reexamine your argument in that light. As it stands now, though, your claim doesn't at all match up with my fandom experiences.

[dazzledfirestar]

And yet, still no answer as to why half the break up pairing has to be demonized/abusive.

You want another example. Go cruse the Avengers fandom for awhile.

[(Anonymous)]

Did having your racist bullshit shoved in your face sting? Do you need a bandaid? Grow the fuck up moron./

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I've written 100+ fics starring characters of color (mostly shipfic, a little gen), so your implication that I'm opposed to characters of color and/or to pairings involving POC is kind of laughable. I'm not saying that I'm, like, a perfectly non-racist person or anything, but that particular issue is just not one I suffer from at all.

My problem with dazzledfirestar's argument isn't that she was calling out racism in fandom, but that she was doing it badly.