[ SECRET POST #2642 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2642 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.
[Homestuck]


__________________________________________________



03. http://i.imgur.com/BVCZgbY.gif
[moving gif]


__________________________________________________



04.
[Michelle Lee]


__________________________________________________



05.
[Ping Pong the Animation]


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.
[Lord of the Rings]


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________







14. [SPOILERS for Pandora Hearts]



__________________________________________________







15. [WARNING for sexual/emotional abuse]
















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #377.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. http://i.imgur.com/p35Foa2.png

[(Anonymous)]

Naw man, my fic needs are totally different from my media and representation needs.

[(Anonymous)]

Yawn. I'm not saying I disagree or agree (sometimes the way fandom rolls annoys me in its sometimes incomprehensible character worship, sometimes I'm the one who does not care about such and such female character) but this has to be the seventy thousandth time I've heard someone complaining.

[rubbertea]

what people want to see in canon (in general, more well characterized female characters & less romance) isn't the same as what they want to see in fic (in general self-indulgent romance involving people whom they're attracted to, which, considering fandom is mostly straight women, are more likely to be men).

[sarillia]

Why don't I ever hear straight men saying that they prefer to read about women because they're straight men but I always hear straight women saying that this is why they prefer to read about men?

[rubbertea]

i don't know? but we do hear about straight men watching female on female porn, so they do like to watch women getting it on, just like a lot of women like reading about men getting it on

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, women greatly outnumber men in fandom, so the chances of hearing that from a guy as opposed to a girl are fairly slim - and, away from fandom, it's actually pretty common for guys to watch girl on girl porn*.

Plus, I suspect there's an element of "everyone should be able to relate to a male character [particularly a white one], but only women are expected to be able to relate to a female character playing into it as well.

*You also have to remember that, as a general rule, women tend to be less visual than men, so written smut is more likely to get their rocks off than it is your average guy.

[(Anonymous)]

Possibly because when women are talking about 'what they prefer to read about' in the context of fandom, they're usually talking about what sort of smut they want to read? And so it's more equivalent to what sort of porn men are watching than to what sort of books they're reading? And most straight men do watch more porn featuring women than featuring men?

That's my theory.

[(Anonymous)]

In the male side of anime fandom I've seen this sentiment expressed a lot. That because they are straight men, they aren't interested in male-heavy shows. They will even refuse to watch a show if it has no female characters, or not enough of them.
So yeah, I've seen it before.

[(Anonymous)]

The difference is that the guys already have such a wide variety. The girls? Not so much. So yes, the guys get a lot of attention and shipping, but the girls are usually there to be eye candy or the romantic interest. Not so with the guys--yes, they can be the eye candy or romantic interest, but that's usually a subplot for them and they're the hero first. As opposed to girls whose hero plot and romance plot are just as important as the other.

[(Anonymous)]

I have a similar reaction to this whenever I hear people bitching about how THERE ARE NO THINGS WITH GOOD FEMALE CHARACTERS OMG.

Have y'all been living under a rock since the 1950s? Ever heard of BtVS, Xena, or Sailor Moon? Or ANY magical girl manga/anime? What about MLP, Orange is the New Black, or that show with all the clones? Heck, for all people bitch about comics and their portrayal of women, the X-Men cast has a LOT of interesting, badass, well-rounded female characters. Then there's Wonder Woman, Batwoman, She-Hulk, etc., and that's not even getting into all the non-superhero comics with female protagonists.

There's plenty of stuff out there, and it's not that hard to find. You just need to step out of your Superwhoteenwolfhannibaltumblrlock bubble for a moment.

[(Anonymous)]

The first three canons you mentioned are from the 90s, and it's just there's more stuff with sexist crap than there are with balanced casts or women as leads.

Those shows do get attention, but when you look at movies, there are still more men than women. Outside of fandom, mainstream stuff is important, too. Indie stuff is good but for the average non fandom person we should have more movies with female leads instead of the limit we have.

[(Anonymous)]

This. Remember how 2013 was "filled" with great female-led movies? Remember how it also turned out there were considerably fewer female-led movies in 2013 than in previous years?

Buffy and Xena are fantastic, sure. But they're still just drops in the bucket of The Same Old Shit.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. A lot of popular/'mainstream' shows are more male-driven, but there really is interesting media (shows, books, movies...) that exists (and, yes, stuff that's recent too) with good female central characters. But. You know. No one bothers to look for it because it's easier to complain.

[(Anonymous)]

you kinda have to make an effort to search and seek out these female centric contents, or content by women.
Even if it's not much harder to find and watch Orange is the New Black, most popular shows aren't female-centric.
Things like fandom, your dash/friends/other people reminding you that these media exist by talking about it make it more likely that you give them a shot sometimes.

At least that's the case for me with reading. I'm actively seeking out female authors and non western/marginalized authors and it takes an effort- also it doesn't mean that the stuff is necessarily good, sturgon's law etc.
(even rec list gave me shitty bland books just because they were queer)
So yeah, if I see "the name of the rose" around, I already have an idea about it and flip through it etc. Many female authors don't have that benefit, aside from big name authors like JK Rowling.

That said, I think the effort is worth it. I read more women than men now and enjoy their perspective and writing a lot, even if I never heard about them before. Queer books are still hard to come by though.

[(Anonymous)]

I'll take your recs. Especially on any good queer books.

[rbhudson]

Lion King or gtfo

jk lol

It's the ciiiiircle of crap

[elephantinegrace]

People in charge are afraid that viewers won't want to watch a female-centered show that's not specifically marketed to women, and so they don't produce/advertise those shows. Then the show does poorly, and so people in charge are afraid that viewers won't want to watch a female-centered show that's not specifically marketed to women.

For example, when Beeblock series three was about to air, there were ads promoting it everywhere I turned (IRL). I found out about Orphan Black through F!S and have only recently started watching it because an online friend of mine recommended it. If it weren't for word of mouth, I wouldn't have known that things like Orphan Black, The Fall, or Rizzoli and Isles (the show; I'd known about the books about three years before the show started aring).

Re: It's the ciiiiircle of crap

[(Anonymous)]

You hit the nail on the head.

Re: It's the ciiiiircle of crap

[(Anonymous)]

How did you never see ads for Orphan Black? Right now if I go to Amazon they have a banner saying I can watch it for free if I sign up for Amazon Prime. I've seen commercials on TV saying the same thing. I saw ads for Orphan Black at least a dozen times a day every day for at least a month before it first aired. I was so sick of seeing the ads that I almost didn't watch the show. With Rizzoli & Isles, that's exactly the reason I didn't watch it. And that's just talking about the TV ads; newspapers and magazines were saturated with print ads for both shows and TNT paid to feature Rizzoli & Isles on IMDB and tons of other websites.

And to be fair, Rizzoli and Isles is an American cable TV show on a channel that makes more bad than good shows. In fact, most of their shows at the time were police procedurals, so it was easy for audiences to get burned out. Rizzoli & Isles is the only one that started at that time to make it past one season (the others started before or were bought from other networks). It's done well with a niche audience, but it's ridiculous to think spending even more money on advertising would draw more viewers. And there isn't much international demand for a formulaic American show using tired tropes with average reviews, so if it airs outside the US, it isn't until long after it aired in the US.

But Orphan Black is an international show that airs about the same time in many countries and has a unique premise that draws viewers of a wider range than "Buddy cop show but with girls!" So while there is definitely more advertising for Orphan Black than Rizzoli & Isles, it isn't disproportionate to the size of likely viewers.

Re: It's the ciiiiircle of crap

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, I found Orphan Black and Lost Girl and most of my lady centric shows by word of mouth.

[(Anonymous)]

Um. I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. I think maybe i agree with part of it, but not with all of it.

I do think fandom is primarily about shipping. Whether that's slash, femslash, or het. And people in fandom are usually always primarily focused on the characters in their ship. In slash fandoms, that usually means the women get short shrift.

Where we disagree is that most fandoms are male focused. A lot are, but there are also a lot that aren't. Just off the top of my head, Castle fandom revolves around Caskett, Once Upon a Time is pretty much all about the women, you really can't have a discussion about NCIS anymore without it turning into another complaint session about how terrible the show is now that Ziva's gone (and how the new girl is the worst character ever), and then there's Felicity Smoak who is the Stiles of the Arrow fandom. That's four that I know of personally just off the top of my head.

[(Anonymous)]

And the things with girls in the focus have to have damn good stories for anyone to give a shit.

shows like once upon a time and vampire diaries have pretty strong fanbases. i think they just don't overlap much with "fandom" as f!s mostly knows it.

[(Anonymous)]

i think they just don't overlap much with "fandom" as f!s mostly knows it.

Pretty much.

[(Anonymous)]

Well done, you have just come to the blindingly obvious conclusion that women are NOT better than men when it comes to their treatment of the opposite gender.

Yes, it's true, if women had been in charge of the world this whole time, if women had the freedom to shape media entirely without male influence, then yes, the exact same gender issues would still exist. No better, no worse

Not sure why this is only just dawning on some people. The idea that women are human beings has been around for a while now, but for some reason the negative side of that always seems to escape people. Women are human beings and therefore without pressure to act otherwise will only care for their own interests, just like men, just like everyone.

"Do I want to make a statement? Do I want to enact social change? Yes, sure why not, but first I need to have a wank over sex objects dancing for my pleasure"
- The little voice inside of every writer of every gender ever