[ SECRET POST #2652 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2652 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 041 secrets from Secret Submission Post #379.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I guess from a literal perspective every woman everywhere suddenly assaulting all men with burning hot coffee would be suboptimal. So that is true.

But on the most basic level, the fact that men fight a bunch hasn't caused them to be regarded in that way, so I see no reason it should be that way for women. If someone wants to treat it differently and ascribe those tendencies to all women, that's their own problem and they can spin on it. I don't agree that women can or should be expected to meet some massively high standard in order to help out the side or whatever.

I also have problems with it b/c... I mean, there are women who fight and do dirt. It happens. This is a thing that exists already. Human beings are human beings and reducing them to something else on the basis of gender is not something that I'm super happy about. And I also probably do not have as much of a problem with violence in general as a lot of people on here, honestly, so that's part of it (even though I know it's going to get me shouted down).

[(Anonymous)]

OP of thread

The men that attack others just for looking at them mostly are regarded as unstable assholes. Men, however, don't already start from a position where they're regarded as hysterical and emotional by the system. You cannot compare the reaction of society to men and women because women start with this "emotional" bullshit baggage to begin with.

[(Anonymous)]

I acknowledge that it is the reaction for some people, but I think it's a patently irrational and wrong reaction and I don't think it's sufficient reason to try and say people aren't allowed to act like human beings.

If you want to say that violence is always wrong, that's one thing, but I'm just uncomfortable with this kind of "letting the side down" argument in general.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree it's a patently wrong and irrational reaction. I am also saying it's the one that would happen.

Should POC be held to a higher standard than white people? No. But if POC started being violent and reactionary enough to blind people for looking at them funny, you can bet your ass there'd be a huge racist backlash.

Violence is always wrong, but in this particular case, women are going to be judged much more harshly for it because of a history of sexism.

[diet_poison]

Hm, yeah, that's interesting. I guess part of it does come down to the sad truth that we have to be a certain way so people don't shout down our already tenuous credibility.

On the other hand? Men do not literally throw hot coffee at every woman who looks at them the wrong way. That kind of reaction is very extreme and if it were commonplace it would get a lot of grief, for good reason. The majority of men are not terribly violent, and most people know this. If the majority of women or men were this violent, it would throw credibility on their whole gender, for good reason.

And, yeah, being ok with violence is going to detract from your credibility here. I think in general the kind of world most of us want to see does not feature commonplace violence.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I think I'm definitely talking about it in way more general terms than the comment I was responding to, which is probably a mistake on my part. So that's absolutely true. You're absolutely right on that.

As for the rest... fair enough! Like I said, I didn't expect it to be an popular opinion (although I don't think I would endorse commonplace violence as necessarily a good thing, either - I think I just have less of an objection to it).

[diet_poison]

I don't object to people using violence to defend themselves/defend others. It's just that a) ideally, there wouldn't be anything to defend from, and b) in this case there was zero threat at all, just someone (possibly) looking at her. And don't get me wrong, I would have been creeped out too, had he been leering, just...it's not a direct threat.

[elialshadowpine]

Yeah, exactly... I mean, I feel a little for coffee!anon because I probably wouldn't react well to someone staring at me, but ... throwing a cup of hot coffee in their face is pretty extreme for no active threat or violence or anything. Esp since there are other reasons someone could be staring (I have a number of friends with ADD, and I've run into this myself, with getting lost in thought and it appearing to be staring to other people) that are not sexual in origin. "Yo, you're making me uncomfortable here" is a more appropriate reaction than coffee to the face.

[diet_poison]

My response would probably have been to stare back at them until I catch their eye and they realize they were staring at me and then get embarrassed and look away. I've done that before, and it works.

[elialshadowpine]

Yup, I have done the same thing. It works like a charm. (Except when you have guys like my ex who would intentionally stare and then defend himself by saying that if they didn't want to be stared at, they shouldn't dress like that. It is amazing the amount of sexism that he had that didn't start to appear until, I think, got on medication that affected his ability to hold up the mask. Some of the stuff was horrifying, for reals.)

[diet_poison]

holy shit, I can see why he is your ex.

I hope he gets a clue. 0_0

[elialshadowpine]

Literally, that shit didn't appear until the last couple of months he was living with us, and then immediately after he was informed that he was getting evicted. After that, it was all bets are off, and he let his sexist flag fly. This is also the asshole that bragged about tricking me into a relationship because I had mentioned at one point only being interested in people who are female or identified as feminine. He told me that he identified more female, and approached things very differently than most guys... and it was apparently all an act, because he boasted about having kept it up for years and I totally got tricked into a relationship with a macho guy.

[diet_poison]

That's major creepy shit right there.

And...why? Why would he do something like that? Even if he's telling the truth...why go out of his way to date a girl who's obviously not his type? Is it one big power trip??

[elialshadowpine]

IKR? I have no idea. I half suspect it's something he made up just to get at me, but having talked with other people who knew him from wayback, I can't say that for certain. He was VERY big on power trips, that's for sure.

edit because it comes to mind he's the sort who gets downright offended if a woman isn't *gasp* interested in him. So that may have been a part of it -- the "conquest" and tricking a woman who otherwise wouldn't be interested. He's pretty fucked up. This is the dude we found a whole bunch of professional business cards from women with things scrawled on them like "hot tits" "nice ass" and so forth when we were cleaning his shit out of the house.

[diet_poison]

ughh, so creepy. Like a Nice Guy^TM on emotional steroids.

Also seeing women as prizes/objects of conquest is just...so...I can't believe people still think that way. Combined with the business cards (he keeps them to remind himself how hawt random professional women are?) he's like the ultimate objectifier. So glad you got rid of him.

[logicbutton]

Sure it has. Men of color who aren't members of a "model minority" and any man who is visibly of a lower socioeconomic class are considered unstable and violent until proven otherwise.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, NOW I remember who coffee!anon is! Thanks!