[ SECRET POST #2664 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2664 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 075 secrets from Secret Submission Post #381.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[dreemyweird]

I don't really "believe" in anything, and reasonably I find the idea of Satan as dubious as the idea of God. But if somebody asked me to choose what I feel is more likely (emotionally, not logically), that would undoubtedly be the Devil. Not necessarily the horns-and-pitchfork version, just something that is simultaneously powerful and consciously evil.

And I guess what you said makes sense? If evil has no counterpoint, then it is no longer evil? Which is why it would be unreasonable for the Devil to eliminate everything that is good.

But tbh I'd like to repeat that these aren't my beliefs, nor logical arguments. I myself can find a whole lot of fallacies and mistakes in this kind of reasoning.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Ahhh, OK, I understand what you're saying. And why you say it's emotionally something you feel. "Theodicy" as a term, in my experience (gotta stress that, IME only), is usually used by highbrow theology-school types who want to present a really logical, laid-out, usually way way way over-intellectualized...pile of dog droppings (to put it politely). Which is not even close to what we are discussing here.

I guess the only thing I can say in response (besides sorry that one troll seems to have misunderstood/taken your POV badly), is as you say, there are obvious fallacies in your reasoning.

But if you're coming at it from an emotional viewpoint where evil IS present in the universe, but you can't (at this very moment) see the counterpoint to that, maybe look at it like, the fact that you recognize evil AS evil, no matter how dark life/the universe/etc seems to you right now, if you didn't realize that there was good in life/the universe/etc., then the evil would have won.

I mean, the fact that you still see evil for what it is, should give you hope that the counterpoint to evil DOES exist. Because if it didn't, you wouldn't know that the evil was, evil. And life would suck, but you wouldn't even know that life has the possibility to not suck. Er. Sometimes. But you do know those things (I hope), so even though it looks like there's darkness, you only know it's dark, because there is hope of the light. If that makes sense. Am I making sense?

IDK. That's what I wish someone would have told me when I was depressed. IDK if that really makes sense, or if it applies to you, or if you want to punch the computer screen for me saying it LOL.

[dreemyweird]

No, I'm grateful that you are spending your time on saying this because I see that you want to explain your views and to make me feel better rather than tell me how wrong and disturbed I am.

And what you are saying makes sense, only it doesn't give me hope. All these things are a part of the reason why I find Gothic/noir narratives so attractive. They show people who suffer and who have no hope but nevertheless do carry on. [Well, it is a specific type of Gothic narratives, really. Regular Gothic/noir characters rather tend to lose their sanity or to end up dying a horrible death.]

To paraphrase your metaphor, I only know there is darkness because I have an abstract idea of the light that I think is really unlikely to manifest itself in any meaningful way. But it makes sense to pursue this light even though it's more or less non-existent.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Hey, I don't mind, it's an interesting conversation. I like trying to wrap my mind around other peoples' perspectives. (Well, sometimes.) And please don't think I'm trying to push my beliefs on you, or anything, I really do want to understand where you're coming from.

Your last sentence, though, makes me think that you DO have hope (even if you can't see that at all at the moment; yeah, I've been there), even if it doesn't "feel" like hope, or feel hope"ful" if that makes sense.

What I mean is, you say "it makes sense to pursue the light" -- that's basically what hope IS. Pursuing/looking towards something you can't see or maybe even experience, but that you have an abstract idea of, even though you have no concrete way of knowing that it exists, and you may never have that.

That is hope, in a nutshell. If I am being even remotely coherent at all here, that is.

[dreemyweird]

Maybe. I'm not sure. I don't like calling it that. Sense of honour, more like. "Hope", as I understand it, is the ability to believe that the future (or certain parts of the future) shall be good. Or at least the willingness to assume that a favourable outcome is more likely than the opposite. I have no such feelings. (Hence my idee fixe that I should always have the means to kill myself quickly and painlessly).

I don't find my current life bleak or particularly unbearable (it is pretty good, if anything), but it feels like walking on the edge of an abyss and I would be kind of surprised if I don't fall into it eventually. Doesn't mean that I should jump into it ASAP, but I doubt that's what you or anyone else would call "hope".

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT again

"Hope", as I understand it, is the ability to believe that the future (or certain parts of the future) shall be good.

That's not hope, that's straight up delusional. The willingness to assume that a more favourable outcome is more likely than the opposite is what gets most people through their day/lives when things go sideways, that's true, but I wouldn't call that hope, as it's based on their past experiences, and the idea that they can reach the same baseline they reached before (at the very least), or just sheer, dogged determination, to go on in the face of what appear to be insurmountable odds.

The last sentence of your previous post is what I understand hope to be. That said, I could be wrong, too, so don't just take the word of some random anon on the Internet of all places.:-) I think everyone has their (to use a poor analogy) one-paycheck-away-from-homeless moments. That's part of the human condition. The fact that we do go on, even though there is absolutely no good, solid, logical reason to do so, is hope. Or what I think of as hope, anyway.

[dreemyweird]

O...kay. You may be right. I rather assumed it worked the way faith works (because faith sounds pretty "delusional", for want of a better term).

I may share ACD's credo. Hope for the best but expect the worst. [man, do I love ACD.]

Anyway, good luck to you! <3

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

ACD's credo has been my motto in life for as long as I can remember, and I didn't even know it was his. :-) Though I always say, "Hope for the best, PLAN for the worst!"

Sorry the rest of the thread got so out of control/over the top on you, and best of luck to you as well!