fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2669 ]

[ SECRET POST #2669 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2669 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I feel you. For the most part, I hated group projects in college. I hated feeling like, no matter how much work I myself put in, I would be judged according to the work of others. There was one project I completed where the professor promised to judge us individually, and despite the fact that my partner flaked and didn't do a damn thing, it was still my favorite of all the projects I did, simply because I knew I'd be recognized.

There's this notion that these projects are supposed to correspond to the working world (and some people are responding to this post in kind), but in my experience, they really don't. In the working world, there are real stakes, and supervisors notice when a particular team member isn't pulling her/his weight. It's a very different set of circumstances, and I'm not sure that a college course can duplicate them.

They really don't. And especially because this is law school and this is a group project for a presentation in a way that is nothing like legal work is every going to be.

Huh. I don't know too much about legal work, but it seems like it's pretty individualistic.

It is. I mean, sometimes firms work together on assignments. But you don't really do issue presentations, and usually you each have your own individual parts of the case you're working on.

I've worked in law firms going on 25 years now, you are wrong

Okay? I only have my experience as an intern. And I've been in public interest rather than firm settings, so maybe its different?

I still don't think the group project in this class is anything like what is going to be in a job setting.

Yep, my group project in college that turned out the best was when it was made clear that we were all receiving individual grades, and when the fourth member of our team contributed absolutely nothing (in spite of our efforts), we weren't punished for it.

And I think that's kind of the key concept: people have to made to feel as if they're individually responsible. When you disperse responsibility, people tend to slack off, and this has been proven time and time again.

In the working world, there are real stakes, and supervisors notice when a particular team member isn't pulling her/his weight

Well, it can still be extremely frustrating - I spent a lot of time on a project once, and it fell through because no one else cared as much. But I think they tend to be two different situations. so it's not a fair comparison.

Oh yeah, no doubt.

But as you say, work and school are different. And, also, work is different depending on the field and the person.

Either way, in most professions, if you don't generate results as an individual, you're going to face consequences. And that's less the case in college.

"In the working world, there are real stakes, and supervisors notice when a particular team member isn't pulling her/his weight."

Unless the manager/supervisor is the one who doesn't care about the job and doesn't get involved in it until the end (and then just blame everyone and demands a last second immediate fix and then, after everything is done, forgets again to check what were the issues and who caused them).
Or unless the lazy member is the manager/boss friend/lover/relative and they get away with anything.
Or unless the member pulling the group back is an expert liar who manages to blame everything in someone who is doing their job.

Honestly, the working word is not perfect and it doesn't always work like it's supposed to do.

You're right. You can land bad supervisors and bad managers. And upthread, fingalsanteater made a good point about how high school never ends.

But the thing is, struggling through a shitty group project with a shitty professor won't make it any easier for someone to struggle through a shitty group project with a shitty manager. It'll just make it easier for them to accept defeat.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that, whether in school or out of school, if performance isn't tied in some way to the individual, then the management style is flawed.

Then you have had a very different experience of real working world than I have. :( In all my jobs, group work has been required and it's been a crap shoot as far as the people who have been involved--they've run the gamut from slackass to super motivated, and especially when I was chairing various committees, I had to figure out how to motivate the slackasses or else do it all myself.

And while I have sometimes been recognized for doing well, I have almost never seen anyone penalized for not pulling their weight. :(

Oh man, that really sucks, and I'm sorry. :(

I'm trying to think of something else to say, but mostly I can just empathize and lament.

Awwww. *huggles*

I find my work very rewarding and I am not trying to discourage anyone at all. I think I am just reacting badly to the past couple of GC threads about how sucky teachers are (which is not at all how I interpreted your particular comment BTW just an overall impression over the past few days) and how useless college is and etc.

I just think that K-12 and college present a false impression that life is a meritocracy which participation in the workforce often contradicts. I bought into it totally and was so surprised and hurt when my hard work wasn't rewarded and shitty people weren't punished for not doing their jobs. I think I was really naive in a lot of ways when I began my career.

Which largely has fuck-all to do with group work which I also hated as a student. LOL :)

thank you for letting me rant at you.

On the whole, I agree with you. The norms of school are supposed to prepare you for work, but they really don't.

It seems to me that we developed a formula centuries ago and have failed to update it, despite the fact that it sorely needs updating. The result is a host of ineffectual and hurtful methods.

As for ranting...you're welcome. I'm not always good at coming up with things to say, but I'm always willing to listen/read. :)

Edited 2014-04-25 03:54 (UTC)

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[ SECRET POST #2669 ]

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