fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2707 ]

[ SECRET POST #2707 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2707 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 066 secrets from Secret Submission Post #387.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 (also a repeat x 3) - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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"Forced sterilization of the poor comes up surprisingly often in conversations and typically everyone is all for it."

Do you live in a dystopia novel or something?

I literally overheard it today at my local coffee shop, from a group I see around all the time.

Had to cross to the other side to read in peace before I made some comments.

Do you talk to real people, ever?

I live in one of the most liberal towns in California. People in this town don't celebrate Columbus Day, they celebrate Indigenous Peoples' Day. I'm somewhat isolated from what seems to be typical political discussion.

Edited 2014-06-01 21:03 (UTC)

NAYRT

Speaking as a fellow Californian, albeit in a much more conservative area of the state, I have never heard people talk about sterilizing the poor all that much, though this may be because California.

It's common opinion people hold. There was a thread about in on this comm a few weeks ago, with people advocating it.

I probably shouldn't do this, but...

Nobody was advocating that, if that's the thread I think you're talking about.

There was disagreement and bad communication, but nobody actually said "I think this should be done". It was you and a couple other people trying to convince me and a couple other people that we had said something we hadn't.

Sorry, just find it really frustrating that after this time you're still determined to put words in other peoples' mouths.

Welp, there's a person downthread who actually believes that, so I don't think it's so crazy for someone to say "hey, those attitudes are harmful because they lead to this" when it comes up.

I honestly did not expect to see that. Damn. (referring to downthread) It definitely wasn't what was going on in the last thread about this. Everyone was vehement about NOT supporting any kind of forced sterilization or reproductive laws.

Also, it's definitely a good thing to say "those attitudes lead to these" or "they correlate with these" or whatever, but that's not what was being said last time either. It was after a while, people finally started going "well I'm mad because historically X has led to Y", but it literally started with people going "wow you support eugenics" or "wow you support legal reproductive mandates" when the OP of that thread hadn't said anything about either. It was just kind of nasty.

Maybe not all the poor, but I do think poor people who won't stop having kids that they won't or can't take care of should be sterilized after a point. For example, Octomom or that guy in England who fathered like ten kids with a bunch of different women.

And I don't think prisoners who are going to be in jail for a long time and have committed particularly bad crimes (like serial killers, rapists, pedophiles, and people who have killed kids) should be allowed to have kids while in jail. I'd let them have visits with people, but have them monitored so they can't have sex. And no getting married while in prison.

That's...a pretty big violation of bodily integrity you're suggesting there, though. I'm also not a fan of people like octomom, but fact is forced sterilization is often correlated with the darkest parts of our history.

Don't want to go reductio ad Hitlerum - but, the Nazi's did indeed hold that view. There have also been instances of mental patients, refugees, or racial minorities sterilized against their will.

Never, ever, has this gone well in history - and it has always lead to abuse especially against those least able to defend themselves.

Things like teen pregnancy rates are highly linked to the quality of education - we should work on reducing that by those means.

As for people like octomom, there will always be eccentrics or people who seek some emotional gratification from parenthood over nd over again. It's sad, but that doesn't mean we have the right to violate their bodily integrity.

Eh, having worked in welfare for most of my adult life, there are times when I wish it could happen - but specifically for idiots like Mr. B, disabled, with (at last count), 28 kids by about 20 different mothers, who told the judge, "I ain't near done spreading my seed around!"

He also didn't bother telling the women he was HIV+.

He's really the only one, though. Most of the people I worked with were generally in need of help, and, once I could break down most of the barriers (educated white woman vs. undereducated minorities), I think I reached a few of them enough to make a difference?

Or so I tell myself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't knowingly infecting someone with HIV illegal?

And while I absolutely understand there are instances where people would like it to be possible - I just do not think it i in any way a good thing to give a government the power to sterilize its citizens.

Not at that time, it wasn't. >.<

I understand your point, believe me. In Mr. B's case, though, I might've made an exception.

Yikes. Holy crap. (in reference to that Mr. B fellow)

Re: weirdest things you've found out about friends

hands4healing - 2014-06-02 00:09 (UTC) - Expand

Re: weirdest things you've found out about friends

diet_poison - 2014-06-02 03:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: weirdest things you've found out about friends

hands4healing - 2014-06-02 03:23 (UTC) - Expand

Re: weirdest things you've found out about friends

(Anonymous) - 2014-06-02 09:04 (UTC) - Expand

Re: weirdest things you've found out about friends

diet_poison - 2014-06-02 14:38 (UTC) - Expand

Re: weirdest things you've found out about friends

quirkytizzy - 2014-06-02 15:25 (UTC) - Expand

Re: weirdest things you've found out about friends

diet_poison - 2014-06-02 16:41 (UTC) - Expand

Re: weirdest things you've found out about friends

quirkytizzy - 2014-06-02 16:42 (UTC) - Expand

Re: weirdest things you've found out about friends

diet_poison - 2014-06-02 20:01 (UTC) - Expand

Re: weirdest things you've found out about friends

hands4healing - 2014-06-03 00:48 (UTC) - Expand

People like Octomom is where I get stuck on this issue. I don't think any legal action should be taken against her having other kids because that goes nowhere good. But I really feel bad for her kids. Kids shouldn't be born into a world where they're only wanted for the gratification they give their parents. They should be wanted for their own sake. And I wish there were something I could do to help them or to prevent that from happening without crossing that line. :/

The idea of sterilizing jackasses like the ones you mention has great appeal, but you want to read up on the people who actually were sterilized.

Hint: they were not jackasses.

Forced sterilization is one of the many shames of my native state. I'm not interested in seeing that portion of our history repeated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrie_Buck

Fun fact: They were still sterilizing "the feeble-minded" in Canada in the 1970s.

Holy shit, what a terrifying article.

I cried a little the first time I read it. That shit is not ok.

holy shit

I know right? It sounds like the set-up to a horror movie or a thriller, and then you remember that this is real and actually happened to that poor woman and it just becomes so much worse.

...wow.

I hear the viewpoint that the poor and foreigners ought to be sterilized quite a lot whenever I visit Israel. It's a standard mindset in authoritarian circles.

good try, pierce/hydra anon!

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