[ SECRET POST #2710 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2710 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.











Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 029 secrets from Secret Submission Post #387.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

He's a black guy whose back story is rife with bad stereotypes.

It's not really all that progressive to make a black character who reads like every white conservative's idea of what black people are (and who needs white guy to save him from his troubled past). It's like making your main character a woman who is wilting, emotional, obsessed with babies, in need of a man to save her, and ladylike in public while being wild in the bedroom and then saying "BUT SHE'S A WOMAN, SO YOU HAVE TO LIKE IT AND IF YOU DON'T THEN YOU'RE SEXIST."

[likeadeuce]

Again, this is a very easy criticism to articulate without sounding racist. If this is OP's concern then it seems like they are not very good at articulating their arguments.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not understanding why you're finding it so hard to believe that criticizing a POC or female character would not be met with certain segments of a fandom saying, "you're racist/sexist," even if the charge is without merit. It's fairly common.

[likeadeuce]

Because this thread has made it very clear that it's easy to articulate an anti-racist reason for not liking the portrayal. Which makes me suspect that's not what OP means.

[(Anonymous)]

And I suspect that you're either trolling or one of the people OP is talking about.

[likeadeuce]

If you mean one of the people who is suspicious of someone who volunteers that they don't like a black character, no reason, but it totally has nothing to do with racism. -- yes, I'm happy to be that person.

[diet_poison]

also I think it was clear from the secret that they don't dislike the black character, they dislike the way he was written. huge difference.

[(Anonymous)]

There are all these reasons that have been given for why people do not like this character, and why people think the portrayal itself is racist, but because you can't believe that anyone out there would ever use the term "racist" to describe something that isn't racist, you have decided that OP must hate the character because he's black.

The secret doesn't say "I don't like this black character, no reason." It says OP has a problem with what's been done to the character. And you jump to "well you must be racist. And it can't be that you're not, because people are calling you one."

[(Anonymous)]

Perhaps you're new to tumblr, but what people have been telling you is true. The only response to any criticism about Wally's characterization is, "Lol u just mad he's black". But hey, if they like that the one character who was cast as black has to have a white person replace his father figure because his is in jail/is so troubled that only the white guy can help him, then they're welcome to it.

[likeadeuce]

You are right, I do not frequent tumblr, so I will assume you are correct that every criticism of Wally's reboot is a subtly nuanced argument that carefully balances the value of diversity with the need for a broader understanding of racial imagery within society, and every one of these remarks is met with poorly spelled vitriol written by people too dumb to get the argument.

I retract my concern.

[(Anonymous)]

Good.

[(Anonymous)]

I like you.

Agreed.

[insanenoodlyguy]

It is a good troll, yes. :D

[(Anonymous)]

There are probably people who actually have racist reasons for disliking him, and those people suck. And I'm sure there are people who disagree with the notion that the character is written in a racist way and have good reasons for doing so.

But you seem to think that that's all that must be happening. You're using the "every criticism" and "every one of these remarks" hyperbole as your argument, here, when from what I can see, you yourself are saying that every instance must be a certain way and can be no other.

When it comes down to it, it's not even a case of people being too dumb to get the argument: it's a case of people being very, very attached to a character (or a ship, or a story, or what-have-you). Shit, I was involved in a fandom years ago where people started trying to hack each other's fan sites. Over fictional characters.

The fact that race is involved is muddying the waters, and I think rightly so, since it is such a serious issue. But I think you're underestimating the extent to which people in fandom can lash out at one another. In fact, it's very odd that you would have been in fandom and never seen irrational behavior in defense of a character.

[diet_poison]

I kind of wonder if you're totally unfamiliar with some of the more...extreme...parts of fandom. Because yes, there are people out there who are that knee-jerk and unreasonable.

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of them are here, decrying this without ever hearing about it before (so they obviously don't read the comics or have interest in the show ... )

[firstmoonie]

I think OP points that out with showing the problematic panel in secret. :)

Also they did this so he'd never become Flash again. Which is entirely problematic on its own.

[likeadeuce]

And again, I fail to see why OP would think that a critique of problematic racial portrayals would be automatically derided as 'racist!' except that this community has constructed a bizarre monolith of 'social justice warriors' as people who are incapable of reading complete sentences. Anyone who spends more than 3 seconds in a so-called SJW-influenced forum would note that criticisms of the way characters of color are portrayed in media is the kind of thing that gets discussed *all the time*. In fact, I guarantee that if OP had made a post that said "I think the way that DC portrays the new Wally is racist" then people would be piling on to call them an oversensitive SJW.

There is some serious mirror universe logic here.

(Also the idea that SJW's are invested in defending *new 52 DC comics*? LOL no.

[firstmoonie]

Oh I agree that OP put it in the wrong way but as someone who followed loyally Flash till that awful Annual, I understood the reference s/he was trying to make.

There is also the fact that they changed a "ginger", a very rare male example in comics not a blonde or brunette and it's hard to swallow. Most of his hardcore fans are also drawn to his looks after all. I think people has to be given a understanding there.

It's not SJWs it seems but DC is handwaving criticsm by using "race card". I've given my concerns to creators which I got reply as "he is an angry kid, he makes mistakes". They seem to have very VERY little knowledge on character and how his white version would have reacted to this. Wally had an abusive father and a weak mother yet he still kept hope thanks to Iris. So when the race change hits, the wrongs are more blatant.

There is just so much to talk on the issue but nobody gives a damn about anyone not related to Batfamily so issue is only reflecting to sales of book.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, I think the disconnect may be that you're thinking this has got to be about actual social justice-minded people. It's not. It's about overly invested fans who get upset when a character they like is criticized.

I'm trying to think of another way to put it.

People on a Social Justice-Oriented Forum:
-will discuss problematic portrayals of women and POCs in fiction
-are not apt to call someone racist unless they do or say something that comes across as racist

Overly Invested Fans on a Fan Forum:
-get upset when someone points out that a portrayal is problematic (or, well...at any criticism at all)
-are apt to say things like "you're just jealous;" "well what have YOU written;" "you're not famous so obviously you don't know anything;" "you just don't like her because she's a woman;" "you just don't like him because he's black."

[likeadeuce]

I am pretty skeptical that there are over-invested fans who are really into reboot Wally based on like one comic he has been in, but I guess that anything is possible.