[ SECRET POST #2727 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2727 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 082 secrets from Secret Submission Post #390.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Probably because they talked about appropriating language, which is a giant oxymoron. You can't appropriate language through media/trends that were willfully given and marketed. Those things are doing what they set out to do: build themselves a place in its public consciousness. Using Tsundere to describe a certain type of character trait isn't appropriation because it's the only term associated with those characteristic.

If someone looks down on Japanese people simply because a few westerners use Japanese culture as an accessory, the problem runs deeper than them using 'kawaii' in a mocking way.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

It's public's consciousness*

[(Anonymous)]

Appropriation of language totally can occur when you repurpose it in nonsensical ways or give the words connotations that they don't have in their home context. "Kawaii" literally just means "cute" in Japan, so when weeaboos call things "kawaii", that's a kind of appropriation--we already have the word "cute" in English, so there's no reason to call things "kawaii" except to use the Japanese language as an accessory. That's not the same as calling something tsundere, because tsundere is a Japanese media trope that has no Western equivalent. When anti-weeaboos turn around and repurpose the weeaboo's usage of the Japanese language, then that's just adding a degree of removal from the source, and arguably making it worse because it's making neutral terms in the original language into insults. So when, say, someone talks about a Western fandom m/m ship as "teh kawaii yaoiz" as a way to imply it's an embarrassing ship that only bad fangirls would like, then that's appropriating the language.

(I would also argue that removing terms from the negative connotations they have in their original language, like the way Western fandom uses "otaku", is also appropriation. Westerners proudly self-identify as otaku, but in Japan, the word has starkly negative connotations of a person who is basically human waste and a drain on society. There are people who self-identify as otaku, of course, but they're like the bronies of Japan (because, unlike what weeaboos believe, Japan is not an accepting paradise for anime-loving perverts). Nobody who isn't them thinks that being one is a good or affirming thing to be. So self-identifying as such, as a Westerner, is really misunderstanding the word.)

[(Anonymous)]

No, that's called borrowing words. Most languages contain many, many words not originally from there, and in many cases, the original meaning has shifted to fit the local culture.
Look at all the Chinese words that were loaned into Japanese and Korean and their meaning shifted. It's a natural side effect of language use.
Look at sushi in most places where it's not really that similar to sushi in Japan but is still called sushi.
Look at all the English words loaned into East Asian languages, and how their meanings have changed as a result.
Look at all the many, many words in English that are originally from Yiddish.
This is a perfectly natural phenomenon. Stop trying to earn sjw brownie points.

[(Anonymous)]

When a word is taken into a language because that language has no term for what it's describing, that's valuable dissemination of language, ie not appropriation.

When a word that already has a perfectly functional equivalent in the recipient language is taken, that's a pointless and senseless use of the language, ie appropriation.

[(Anonymous)]

Are you for real?

Do you honestly think something like kaput is appropriation because we already have broken?

[(Anonymous)]

Do you honestly see "kawaii" becoming popularly disseminated as a synonym for cute? No, people only use it because it's Japanese and it makes them feel cool to use it.

[(Anonymous)]

You're not addressing my question: is kaput cultural appropriation by your definition?

[(Anonymous)]

I would personally not use the word. I don't come from a background where are a lot of Ashkenazi Jewish people. (I grew up in a suburb in the Midwest where the largest minorities were Latino and Hmong people.) It would be unnatural and, yes, appropriative for it to be a part of my lexicon. When it enters into a regional vocabulary by way of immigrants who disseminate parts of their ethnic background into the culture they immigrate to, which is how most Yiddish vocabulary entered the American English lexicon (very different from middle-class white kids deciding to use the words because they have a hard-on for a culture they have no stake in), that's more acceptable.

[(Anonymous)]

Welp, better stop speaking then because you seem to have no fucking idea on how many English words come from other cultures.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh my god you're a fucking idiot and have no idea about how language works.

[(Anonymous)]

...The Linguist in me weeps.

[(Anonymous)]

Do you honestly see "kawaii" becoming popularly disseminated as a synonym for cute?

This is actually happening already. I have no opinion of it, just stating that yeah, it is becoming an actual thing. There've been articles about how it's becoming a thing.

[(Anonymous)]

Kawaii used as a synonym for cute is kind of widespread on the internet, and it mostly refers to a certain type of cute aesthetic (heavily inspired by the Japanese aesthetic) that's loaded with soft colors, cutesy emojis and childish things marketed at young adults. You don't call a puppy kawaii (unless you're 12 and very into anime, I guess), but you'd call something like Lolita fashion kawaii (albeit a bit ironically) because that's the aesthetic the word applies to in the west.

Language, it turns out, is very versatile.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah seriously, why do languages have synonyms at all! There should only be one word for any given thing! Any more is just appropriation!

Because the English language had no word for shmuck, glitch, heimish, or klutz.
Korean couldn't find a different word for "news" than "nyusu" despite the fact that the Chinese managed quite well with xinwen. And of course undong could never possibly be used to mean seupocheu (sports).

You're right, every single word ever loaned is because the other language had no word for it. Nobody but English speakers have sex or shit, that's why "shit" and "fuck" have been borrowed across borders.

[(Anonymous)]

You do realize that English language vocabulary entering into other languages' lexicons usually happens because Americans and other Anglophone nations have forced their cultures on other countries, right?

[(Anonymous)]

You do realize that blaming every single loan word from English on colonialism is idiotic? Especially with modern words like wifi?
Tell me more about how the Pilgrims brought wifi over on the Mayflower.

Also you conveniently ignored ALL THE MANY WORDS loaned from MANY LANGUAGES in favor of talking about English. I gave English as an example because I hoped it would be easier for you to comprehend.

Okay, so how about French loanwords in Korean? That is because the French occupied Korea during the late Koryo Dynasty, isn't it? ISN'T IT?

Please stop using English. Many of the words are from Greek/Latin; you are appropriating Roman and Greek culture.

[(Anonymous)]

lmao that's totally what happens in Japan. oh wait. no.

Japan uses English words (badly, and incorrectly) all over the damn place because it's cool. Not because it's "forced" on them, but because interjecting a couple random English words into a pop song, or on a T-shirt, etc, is so cool.

Any thoughts on appropriation in that case? lol

[(Anonymous)]

...no lots of geeks in Japan self identify as otaku and in a positive way. Just like someone can seen "nerd" or "geek" as an insult in English where another person who self identifies that way doesn't see it as negative.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

"Appropriating language" struck me as poor word choice, maybe, but their secret expressed what they were saying in enough different ways that I didn't assume it meant anything like what people are extrapolating from that. The OP was saying (I think) that some of the ways people insult weeaboos are actually insulting to Japanese culture. There's a difference between "your fandom behavior is inappropriately exoticizing" and "all I have to do to prove you're worthless in a public space is mimic you badly by saying random nonsense in Japanese." The latter is not an argument. And I can definitely see how someone would think it's just as hostile to Japanese media as it is to weeaboos.

I don't think many people are hostile to Japan simply because some Westerners unhealthily idealize Japan. I do think that Weeaboo-ness is overly generalized in the US because it sees Japan as cultural competition, and has a vested interest in American kids identifying first and foremost with American media.

[(Anonymous)]

And by "SA," I meant "AYRT."

[(Anonymous)]

I do think that Weeaboo-ness is overly generalized in the US because it sees Japan as cultural competition, and has a vested interest in American kids identifying first and foremost with American media.

Everything has to be a racist conspiracy theory with you, doesn't it?

[(Anonymous)]

Try harder, troll.

[(Anonymous)]

It's trolling to think you're an SJW piece of shit?

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Actually, I'd go with "insulting," if that's what you think.