fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2736 ]

[ SECRET POST #2736 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2736 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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There's a tendency for some people to go "Umm, ummm well they had people of color/women but I didn't enjoy it because it just wasn't GOOD ENOUGH" as a thinly-veiled excuse to poop all over people's enthusiasm for a story that resonated with them one way or another, in order to seem smarter.

You didn't like it. Good for you. I can't think of anything negative that actually came out of either of those movies-- more female representation and more people of color in main roles is what the general audience saw, so you can go on the corner and nurse your wounded holier-than-thou attitude.

Yet again, I want a "like" button on this site...Or something similar...

pffh, this

Well said.

SA

And that's the most benign mindset actually. There's people who will say it wasn't good enough because of ingrained sexist/racist mindsets (as in, no story featuring women or people of color will ever be good enough to them) and sometimes it gets really hard to tell the different between a well-meaning critique and one that comes from a darker place, because at the end of the day, you're shitting on the positivity the fans have derived from the story.

There's people who will say it wasn't good enough because of ingrained sexist/racist mindsets (as in, no story featuring women or people of color will ever be good enough to them)

Yeah, those are probably the same folks that complain that there are "no well-written female characters". They just set the bar impossibly high.

sort of like that ridiculous flowchart I see floating around Tumblr sometimes, where it tries to quatify what makes a "strong" female character. The problem was the flow chart was literally so complex, and set the bar so damn high that basically no female character would ever pass the test (according to the chart basically any female character that fits a trope is automatically disqualified). The standards were so damn high, I doubt even any male characters could have passed it.

I think it's more effective to praise the positive things than to waste energy hating the negative things.

representation isn't the only reason why people like movies

But obviously a lot of people were entertained by these movies outside of the representation. The OP is shiting on people's enjoyment because they weren't to their tastes.

Yes, the old 'wasn't good enough" standard. It bugs me because it also ignores the idea of baby steps. Was Frozen perfect? No. Would it have been nice if it involved women of color instead of the usual white princesses? Sure. But don't shit on the good things it did do and the positivity people derive from it (I remember seeing a post on Tumblr titled 'why Frozen isn't a feminist movie' and I was just like 'fuck that shit, women identified with it, it was about women, stop shitting on it because it apparently didn't involve the right female characters acting in ways you deem feminist').

Also every time I see people complain about how we need more representation and such, and then I see them making posts about how Frozen and Brave didn't deserve their Oscars I find myself thinking 'Don't you think it says something that the only two movies you specifically call out as not 'deserving' Oscars just so happen to be the two that focused mainly on the female characters?' (And I say this as someone who would not, in fact, have given the Oscars to Brave or Frozen, but I could say the same about several other animated film Oscars as well. It's that those are the only two that get called out that bugs me. Like we must always have higher standards for female-centric movies and immediately look down on the ones that don't meet those standards, and never celebrate the things they do right, but give all male-centered movies a pass.)

Don't you think it says something that the only two movies you specifically call out as not 'deserving' Oscars just so happen to be the two that focused mainly on the female characters?'

Hoooly shit, this so much. It's specially ridiculous because Frozen came around the time the second Hobbit movie was popular (I think they were both released in November?) and NO ONE said ANYTHING about how the Hobbit was a sausage fest, or critiqued its writing as much as they did Frozen. And that's really telling, imo, of how bandwagon-ish the whole thing is.

It's not that I think Frozen or others can't be criticized, but I do feel it comes to a point where people just find it easier to repeat what's already been said, and it stops being productive-- especially when you want it to be perfect right off the bat. This things take a long time, yeah.

If you're in the right places, the observation that The Hobbit is a sausage-fest does come up, but then so does criticism of a lack of POC in major roles, and criticism of Tauriel for being an OC put in for either eye-candy or Warrior Chick Mary Sue.

Add onto that the general "They change it, now it sucks!" comments and maybe the sausage-fest complaints get lost.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2736 ]

Ah, this argument, always

Re: Ah, this argument, always

+1

Re: Ah, this argument, always

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Re: Ah, this argument, always

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Re: Ah, this argument, always