[ SECRET POST #2736 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2736 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 051 secrets from Secret Submission Post #391.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. http://imgur.com/b561nXE.png

[comradesmiler]

Which Pacific Rim succeeded at!

[cushlamochree]

lol, mte

also, I've said it before, but holy god there's been a lot of secrets bagging on Pacific Rim recently, given that it came out a year ago.

[kallanda_lee]

As did Frozen, imho.

[(Anonymous)]

Only in the sense that *all* the characters were vapid cliches instead of just the asian woman.

[(Anonymous)]

There are people arguing that Frozen "tried something new"?

[sarillia]

Why did DW make my comment anonymous?

[morieris]

Yep

"TWO ladies - depression and anxiety allegory - DON'T FALL IN LOVE WITH THAT MAN YOU JUST MET HIM!!!!"

[(Anonymous)]

Movie that focused on the relationship of two sisters (whose love for each other was more important than the romantic love)

[(Anonymous)]

For Disney it did. Not generally.

[(Anonymous)]

First Disney movie where the princess became a Queen.
First Disney movie where the bond between two sisters moved the plot and solved the conflict.
First Disney movie where a main young woman character doesn't like or end up with a guy.
First Disney movie where a woman builds a castle.
Also she gave life to snow which was pretty weird.

It's not a whole new experience because Disney likes their formulas but it is definitely subverted enough from the usual to make it unique.

[feotakahari]

I believe that, to the degree that Frozen is remembered, it will be remembered as a good movie. I don't know if it'll be any kind of classic, but when folks archive binge on old Disney princess movies, it'll probably be one of the ones they enjoy.

not everything needs to be groundbreaking

[(Anonymous)]

and having women and POC certainly doesn't HURT these movies!

Really, I don't expect great leaps, given most of the big mainstream movies in the 2010s. Representation suffered - things don't improve in a linear fashion.

Yeah, there was Lilo and Stitch that featured sisters, but that came out in /2002/. Fuck that noise, I want lots of different movies featuring sisterly love and optimistic action movies with some emotional maturity Every bit of that is nice, even if they're medicore. Hah, I hope we'll get so over saturated with these things that it'll be medicore because it's common.

People liking Pacific Rim and Frozen will only help with that.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh my god. Why can't people just take Pacific Rim for what it is; a movie about robots beating up on giant monsters. Because it did that REALLY well. It was never meant to be anything more than that!

Ah, this argument, always

[(Anonymous)]

There's a tendency for some people to go "Umm, ummm well they had people of color/women but I didn't enjoy it because it just wasn't GOOD ENOUGH" as a thinly-veiled excuse to poop all over people's enthusiasm for a story that resonated with them one way or another, in order to seem smarter.

You didn't like it. Good for you. I can't think of anything negative that actually came out of either of those movies-- more female representation and more people of color in main roles is what the general audience saw, so you can go on the corner and nurse your wounded holier-than-thou attitude.

Re: Ah, this argument, always

[(Anonymous)]

Yet again, I want a "like" button on this site...Or something similar...

+1

[grausam]

pffh, this

Re: Ah, this argument, always

[(Anonymous)]

Well said.

Re: Ah, this argument, always

[(Anonymous)]

SA

And that's the most benign mindset actually. There's people who will say it wasn't good enough because of ingrained sexist/racist mindsets (as in, no story featuring women or people of color will ever be good enough to them) and sometimes it gets really hard to tell the different between a well-meaning critique and one that comes from a darker place, because at the end of the day, you're shitting on the positivity the fans have derived from the story.

Re: Ah, this argument, always

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's more effective to praise the positive things than to waste energy hating the negative things.

Re: Ah, this argument, always

[(Anonymous)]

representation isn't the only reason why people like movies

Re: Ah, this argument, always

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, the old 'wasn't good enough" standard. It bugs me because it also ignores the idea of baby steps. Was Frozen perfect? No. Would it have been nice if it involved women of color instead of the usual white princesses? Sure. But don't shit on the good things it did do and the positivity people derive from it (I remember seeing a post on Tumblr titled 'why Frozen isn't a feminist movie' and I was just like 'fuck that shit, women identified with it, it was about women, stop shitting on it because it apparently didn't involve the right female characters acting in ways you deem feminist').

Also every time I see people complain about how we need more representation and such, and then I see them making posts about how Frozen and Brave didn't deserve their Oscars I find myself thinking 'Don't you think it says something that the only two movies you specifically call out as not 'deserving' Oscars just so happen to be the two that focused mainly on the female characters?' (And I say this as someone who would not, in fact, have given the Oscars to Brave or Frozen, but I could say the same about several other animated film Oscars as well. It's that those are the only two that get called out that bugs me. Like we must always have higher standards for female-centric movies and immediately look down on the ones that don't meet those standards, and never celebrate the things they do right, but give all male-centered movies a pass.)

[(Anonymous)]

"good" is an opinion. Lots of people thought those movies where good.

[darkmanifest]

I think I'd enjoy both of those movies a lot more if people would stop trying to make more of them than they are. Like, seriously, nothing was new or clever about them aside from the special effects. They were a lot of fun, isn't that enough?

Maybe if you compare them both to Avatar, though. At least the writers of those movies did more with the story and characters than bash their faces into a keyboard.

[(Anonymous)]

I find it fascinating that after 20 years without a white princess two movies with them and Disney is labeled god-fearing racist bigots. Like the other movies never existed. Like the didn't change the races of characters TO POC before. Like the majority of their movies since 1992 didn't contain POCs as prominent characters (And most before that being about animals) Like their next Princess movie isn't about a Hawaiian Princess.

But no. We choose to rag on one movie at a time for not being rainbow colored instead of looking at their body of work on a whole.

I don't think Frozen is altogether inventive but I'm so tired of this bullshit.