fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2749 ]

[ SECRET POST #2749 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2749 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 073 secrets from Secret Submission Post #393.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I'm pretty sure a lot of people are just reading fanfic to relax and have fun and aren't there for the 'obligation' to leave feedback on every single thing they read. Not to mention, fandom is supposed to be fun but it can get incredibly tedious to repeatedly write "I liked this" just because you have to say something.

Besides, people pay money to read books everyday and aren't obligated to review them, so why should you have to for fic? I get that some writers want feedback, but not everyone has much more to say than that they liked it. And if the author is just watching the hit count rise and accruing resentment at the disproportionately small number of comments I think they should step back and take a breather from it for awhile.

I know of one author who flounced and deleted all their fics because of that, but I don't think it ever occurred to them that the high hit count was because their fics were good and people who'd already read (including those who reviewed) them were re-reading between updates.

Just me, but if I'm getting paid for my writing then that's already a token of appreciation from the reader that tells me I'm doing a good job and I should keep going. Yay! But if I'm writing fanfic, I'm not getting paid so comments are really, really appreciated for the same reasons.

I review fanfic I like for the same reasons. It's my way of telling the author that I appreciate the work they've done and that I would like to see more of it. Call it enlightened self interest, but it puzzles me that more people don't see it that way.

This! Paying for a book IS supporting the author. Fanfic authors don't get any payment, so if you like what they write and want to support them, leaving a word of thanks and encouragement is, more or less, your "payment."

There are these things called libraries? And readers can borrow books and read them without paying any money to the author? And yet somehow published authors do not get pissy and entitled even when such reader neglect to go on to, say, Amazon, and give feedback on their library loaned-book. Amazing! It's almost as though the reader isn't expected to review everything they read, even when it's free!

DA. This may differ by country, but for books that are purchased for a library collection, there are additional royalties paid to the author to compensate them for loss of sales. AFAIK, it's not a huge amount, but although the reader doesn't pay any money to the author, the library (and/or royalty program) has compensated the author for that.

Just so you know before you get snippy with the next person.

Yes, this. It confuses me every time the library argument is wheeled out.

Authors are paid per book purchased for libraries, and also each time the book is lent out by a library. Also, there are rules about how many times each physical copy can be lent out before another must be purchased, again giving more revenue to the author.

It's far less than outright sales, but it's still money paid to the writer. It's not by any means "free".

But just because a pro writer gets paid for a story, doesn't mean the person buying it actually LIKES it. It just means they bought it. They could hate it.

Being paid is more akin to hit count than comments: after all a hit count only shows how many people clicked on the link, not how many read it.

As a fanfic writer, I do like comments. However I do not want anyone ever to feel that they are obliged to leave a comment (or even a kudos). I rarely comment on a fic (it has to be really damned good or a rare pair), only leave kudos if I really enjoyed the fic.

But I guess it's because I write to write, not to get comments or kudos (I get feedback from my betas). Do I want folks to read it? Yep. I hope they enjoy it...and that's all I expect.

So according to what you say, though, a hit count is utterly meaningless to the author. Because somebody could click on the fic, hate it, and backbutton.
Which brings us back to the only way the author can get positive feedback is by people going out of their way to provide it, by informing the author they liked the thing.

It's not that I write for reviews, but you think that posting a fic to astounding silence isn't depressing? I dropped a 'verse I was writing because of poor reception, because I had other stuff I wanted to write as well and figured there wasn't much point in investing energy in something nobody but me was invested in. I've got my imagination, after all, and I know how it ends.

Which is why, at least on A03, there is a kudos system. I assume that if someone leaves me a kudos, they liked it. No need to comment.

If you're posting elsewhere, then sucks to be you and you'll need to rely on the hit count. People should not feel obligated (or be blackmailed into) leaving comments.

Perhaps I will start leaving comments. But it'll be something like: "Here's a comment, since they're so important to you. Hope you like it. Bye."

It's your choice to continue a series, etc. But I find I don't often have that much of choice to finish something. I have to finish it. I wouldn't be writing it if I didn't enjoy it and want to know how it ended.

But different people write for different reasons.

I don't think that much about fic after I've posted it. (Not that I've written a lot, but eh.) If I write something, it's because I want to. I am only reminded of it later if I get an email about it or something.

Same. If I cared about feedback, I sure as hell wouldn't be writing for my tiny fandoms.

Of course it's depressing. But that still doesn't mean a reader is obligated to leave a comment. Just like a writer isn't obligated to put fic out there because readers are expecting fic from them.

I put out updates to a fic that had very good reception when I posted the first few chapters. The later ones aren't getting any comments at all, tho I can look in stats and know exactly how many people are visiting the updates. They're getting some good numbers, but no comments. Of course I am disappointed, but I keep posting because this is a fic I love writing, I think it's some of my best effort, and I want to finish the story so I can say I finished the story. It's not a waste of my effort because it's not getting any more comments, because I'm doing it for more than just the reviews. If OP is just doing it for comments, he/she needs to take a step back and think about why they're writing.

"But just because a pro writer gets paid for a story, doesn't mean the person buying it actually LIKES it"

This. I can't tell you how many times someone has got me a book for a gift and I absolutely hated it. A book getting bought is nothing like a review or feedback. It just means someone bought it, possibly not even the person who ended up reading the book.

I think you're missing the fact that published fic is (by and large) original fic. Fanfiction is based on something that presumably author and reader share and know- the same canon (or fanon). For me fb isn't about owing, it's about interacting and sharing. And the presumption that fanfic writers have an obligation to post stuff for zero return is pretty weird to me. I always comment if I like a fic. Always. I couldn't imagine not letting an author know I like their fic and appreciate them being willing to share it. I'm one of those (I'm sure not the one you're talking about) who deleted my fics at AO3. They have a happy home elsewhere now, I don't worry about comments/kudos/hits ratios and my stress over the lack of interaction is gone. I had a few people contact me all indignant, but as they were people who never commented, I have to be honest and say that I had zero sympathy for them.

For others who stress about comments/hits/kudos ratios on AO3, it is possible to disable kudos/comments emails from the preferences page on your account. It is also possible to make it so you don't see the stats on ANY works on AO3, either your own or someone else's. Basically, this is done by inputting CSS into a skin.

To make all stats invisible: http://astolat.tumblr.com/post/91281173598

To show only wordcount and chapter count: http://fail-fandomanon.dreamwidth.org/94478.html?thread=461367822#cmt461367822

This has been a lifesaver for me, because although I like kudos and all, like a lot of people I have a tendency to obsess and stress out over stats. I haven't done that in a few days, now, and it's great.

Thanks for those links! I swear the settings on the preferences page don't even work for me (at least not on all pages. so frustrating).

Yeah, same here. I have ticked the "don't show me any hit counts" box ticked, but I get them shown to me pertty much everywhere.

But some people aren't reading fic to interact. They just want to passively enjoy something without the same knot of social obligation and expectation as RL. For all the people who do review there will be some who don't for one reason or the other, and that's ok. You say feedback isn't about owing, but you are strongly implying you feel authors are owed the interaction and sharing of feedback.

It's good that you review, but the problem with what you're saying is that you're pushing your own way of doing fandom onto other people. Just because you like and want to review on every fic you read doesn't mean someone else does or has to. Just because someone reviews doesn't make them a better fan or more worthy of reading the fic.

And to be honest that's kind of an awful attitude to have: to flounce and completely snub people just because they didn't review and feel completely justified. Maybe they didn't give you the review you feel they owed you, but they might have spread the word about your fic to other people, either by reccing it or having it in their favorites so where more people could find it, who read it and possibly reviewed it.

I was more or less with you right up until the end... when you started pushing YOUR way of doing fandom on the previous anon.

It's fine that you don't want to leave reviews. And it's fine that the other anon does. But neither the previous anon nor any other writer owe you or any other non-reviewing reader any consideration of your feelings when the writers get frustrated and pull their fics since, as you yourself have declared, you don't believe that there's any "knot of social obligation" or "expectation" between fic writers and readers.

Leaving reviews may not make you, in your words, "a better fan or more worthy of reading the fic" but it certainly makes the author more aware of you and your preferences. I can honestly say that I give far more consideration to people who leave comments than people that I don't even know exist... and no, hypothetical reccing or favoriting don't enter into the equation because they could just as easily not being doing those things.

Wait, wait, wait... I want to hear more about your fic exodus if you don't mind. Is the new site better than AO3 (by your reckoning, of course)? Less stressful to you? Can I ask why you left? I have so many questions!

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[ SECRET POST #2749 ]

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