fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2756 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2756 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

you missed my point i think

For an MCU context, Captain America will always be bigger and stronger than Iron Man out of the suit - whether that's Steve and Tony, Stephani and Toni, or some combination thereof. The onus will always be on Captain America to watch his/her strength when fooling around with Iron (Wo)Man out of the suit.

the two guys im talking about are originally equals. nearly exact equals. they have a rivalry, the point of the ship is that they push each other to the limit and beyond. that onus on one of them to hold back was not there. if the ship were kept AS IS, then it would be perceived as abusive because both characters would keep the same limits when one of them is suddenly physically smaller and there are things she's not physically capable of and the guy keeps pushing her to the same limits

if you change it so that the onus is on the guy to hold back, that changes the ship dynamic so you can't judge it the same. it's not the same ship any more

everything else you said is irrelevant, with that said

Even if they are equals, they still have a responsibility to a.) understand that their partners has boundaries and limits, and b.) respect those boundaries and limits. That my hypothetical partner has the exact same boundaries and limits as myself doesn't change that I still have to respect them when they are made known to me.

And trust me, you can be drastically different in the same field and still have a lively rivalry - and as long as you still respect the boundaries and limits that you should have been respecting when you were equal, then pushing someone to their limit and beyond doesn't change whether their limit is the same as yours, more, or less.

Though quite frankly, I have yet to hear of a ship, slash or het, in which the characters were completely equal in the way you describe - or that the relationship is as shallow as the one you imply. Physical equals pushing each other on is a superficial detail, not a core element of a relationship.

look wow im not gonna write you a ship manifesto for a fandomsecret thread

you and your boyfriend have a dynamic. it sounds healthy and lovely and cool. your steve/tony and clint/natasha also have dynamics that sound healthy and lovely and cool. none of them are like the ship i'm talking about and it's not relevant at all to compare them?

like the ship is a healthy ship BECAUSE they are equals, since they are equals there are things that are acceptable to do and lines that are further down, than if there was a power imbalance to start with. when you change the gender of one of them it adds an imbalance that wasnt there and obviously if you kept equal-dynamics while adding that imbalance, something goes off and can be perceived as unhealthy and abusive and possibly could be

idk how that's so hard

Being equal doesn't automatically a healthy ship make. You can have absolute equals and still have a very unhealthy relationship. A relationship that's healthy "because" they are equals makes no sense.

And as I've mentioned upthread, every argument I've made here has been specifically about the actual state of the relationships, now how others perceive a relationship. That's a different can of worms altogether, and one that I'm just ignoring when we are discussing these ships predominantly in cultural contexts that regularly dismiss female-on-male rape and abuse.

I think you and I may be operating on very different definitions of things like "lines", "limits", and "dynamics". Because if we have two sets of partners who physically push each other to their limits and beyond, who rough house in a safe and consensual manner, and who affectionately mock each other all the while, then I don't see a difference in dynamic between the one where they are equals and the one where they are very different in size/capability.

If that kind of relationship is healthy because they're equals, then that implies you are pushing your partner to your limit, not their limit, and that's disrespectful and unhealthy anyway. If you are actually pushing your partner to their limit and not yours, then it won't matter what their limit actually is in relation to yours.

and if you say 'well you could balance out the gender thing by suddenly giving the newly female character piano playing skills' or something its not that easy, that means changing their backstory to include pianos, lessons, the capability and ability and time to even learn ...

the question was saying genderswap then evaluate the ship, not genderswap, come up with entire new backstories, then evaluate the ship

Genderswapping does, by default, alter a characters' backstory in some manner in at least 95% of the contexts they occur in (and I'm just throwing in 5% to account for the fact that just because I have yet to hear of a fandom in which men and women are completely and utterly equal doesn't mean they don't exist - but I have yet to hear of a fandom where this was the case, so from both experience, heresay, and second/third person analysis, it's still 100% of the time).

[ SECRET POST #2756 ]

Re: Genderswap and abusive ships

Re: Genderswap and abusive ships

Re: Genderswap and abusive ships

Re: Genderswap and abusive ships

Re: Genderswap and abusive ships

Re: Genderswap and abusive ships