[ SECRET POST #2767 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2767 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Work. Again. Sorry if response time is slow. :(

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 011 secrets from Secret Submission Post #394.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big (also random unsubstantiated claims about famous people) ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[lyriel]

Also, even though she ostensibly makes her living as a waitress, there are at least two or three canon references to Penny borrowing large amounts of money from Sheldon or Leonard, and even Leonard paying her rent. She also seems to be relying on credit cards, a fair bit.

She's a waitress in theory, but she doesn't actually seem to be self-supporting, or at least not consistently so.

[blitzwing]

Um. Wow. I don't even know what to say to this comment.

Waitresses make like, $3 an hour. No crap they struggle financially. That's not really their fault or an indication that they're failures.

A majority of people in food service and retail have to rely on government assistance because their employers vastly underpay them what they deserve, even though they work just as much as anyone.

I do find it offensive that you consider someone only a worker at their job "in theory" if they have to rely on credit, friends' loans, or any other kind of outside assistance once in a while. What the hell?

[lyriel]

And because of those issues, people with low-paying jobs often live with roommates or with family, etc. Why is Penny choosing to live alone, in a relatively nice apartment, in the same building with people who are Phd. university employees?

Don't turn this into some anti-worker thing. I didn't go there, you did. I've had a wide variety of jobs in my life, and many of them were retail, but I managed to not demand free Thai-food from random guys across the hall, nor did I literally spend my rent money on hot shoes, which Penny canonically does.

Penny chooses not to live within her means, and then takes advantage of these naive, easily-manipulated nerdy guys. Why are people so full of excuses for her?

"Friends helping friends during tough times" is not the same thing as "I knowingly and intentionally spent my rent money on hot shoes." It's not the same, at all.

I acknowledge that all of the characters have negative traits, but what is likeable about her? I don't see it. The positive qualities that people attribute to her are pure headcanon/fanon.

[blitzwing]

It doesn't need to be turned into "some anti-worker thing". It already is, although really it's just disgustingly classist. When you imply that people aren't real plumbers or are only a "retail worker in theory" because they've taken assistance, you are being classist.

It doesn't matter what you have done or Penny has done, you made a statement that had nasty implications against low-wage workers.

You hate Penny, fine. I don't give a shit. But don't, in your quest for justifications to hate Penny, say shit that goes against real low-wage workers.

[lyriel]

Nowhere did I say that it's not okay for people to receive assistance, any kind of assistance, whether from the government or from friends or from other sources. Those are perfectly legit things.

Mooching off some emotionally-naive nerdy guys who have a crush on you is not at all the same thing as collecting welfare or collecting unemployment benefits, or friends mutually helping friends. Penny openly states "I'm cute, I get by."

You're talking about people who face financial struggles through no fault of their own. I'm talking about a fictional character who faces financial struggles through knowingly and intentionally making poor decisions, and then uses her sex appeal as a means to mooch off people who are socially naive and unlikely to say no.

I did not write some anti-welfare screed, here. I don't know where you're getting that.

You haven't answered any of my questions as to why people are so quick to make excuses for Penny, while judging the other characters pretty harshly and holding them to a higher standard of behavior.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree 100%. Geez, this argument. Penny is not financially responsible, the end.

[(Anonymous)]

I have no idea why this single anon posting twice is giving you such shit. This is completely accurate. Penny isn't a poor struggling waitress trying her best to get by. She's a mooch who blows paychecks on expensive shoes, and then gets Leonard to pay her rent. Are these replies trolling or what? Penny doesn't need any sympathy.

[(Anonymous)]

this single anon posting twice

You trying to give everyone a hint about you posting twice?

[lyriel]

"you are being classist."

I'm heartbroken. My day is ruined.

[lyriel]

"It doesn't need to be turned into "some anti-worker thing". It already is, although really it's just disgustingly classist."

I am talking specifically about this fictional character. More to the point, I am questioning why the show's writers try to present this character as being likeable, and then consistently show her behaving in an unlikeable manner.

You are going off on some emotion-fueled tangent, full of righteous anger because I supposedly put people down for using welfare or other forms of assistance, which I absolutely and categorically did not.

It is perfectly legitimate to need and use assistance, whether that assistance is formal (the government) or informal (friends and family.)

But a fictional character who uses her looks to get random guys to pay her bills is not an admirable character. That's the point, here.

[lyriel]

When someone starts getting angry and emotional and talking about how "offended" they are, that's a sure sign they have no actual answers to the questions being asked.

You haven't refuted any of my points. Not one.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

That's probably because you seem quite batshit and are, indeed, a classist fuckwad. Go ahead and make a dozen more replies/posts.

[(Anonymous)]

Why on earth did you make so many replies? You obviously know how to use the "edit" button.

[world_eater]

"Angry and emotional" as opposed to... whatever it is you're doing here?

[(Anonymous)]

You know, it's funny because people say we hate the traits in others that we ourselves have.

You come across as hostile and socially inept...just like Penny! :)

[lyriel]

"I do find it offensive."

Congratulations, here's a cookie.

[blitzwing]

Uh-huh.

"Someone attempted honest communication with me, better mock them!"

You're looking like a real winner. And that is sarcasm.

[(Anonymous)]

You're right, waitresses get shitty wages. I know, I've been a waitress. But why does Penny live in an enormous single apartment, blow her paychecks on shoes, and mooch off her friends? I don't know why you're getting so royally defensive about this. I'm all for waitresses being paid more. But that doesn't alter Penny's situation. She is financially irresponsible. She isn't able to support herself, not necessarily because of her job and crappy wage, but because she isn't budgeting or being realistic about what she can afford.

And Penny is almost never shown having any drive to improve her financial situation - working for promotions, taking on extra work, getting a roommate, whatever. At least if she were acting, she would be working toward her dream and expressing some kind of ambition, but she doesn't have any ambition. She is a mooch and financially irresponsible.

Why you think this is "classist" is truly boggling. Have you not seen the show at all? Penny's job as a waitress doesn't mean she is immune to any sort of criticism.

[(Anonymous)]

I know, I've been a waitress. But why does Penny live in an enormous single apartment, blow her paychecks on shoes, and mooch off her friends?

because it's a fucking tv show and not something that supposed to closely resemble real life? almost every character on US tv lives above their means.

it's obvious you fandom fuckers aren't the target audience of this show if you people are seriously debating and analyzing Penny's financial situation and intelligence.