[ SECRET POST #2787 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2787 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #398.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, I agree! They are each basically the embodiment of everything that the other has ever hated, especially Anders to Fenris. They seriously would be happy to see each other dead. I'm pretty sure they'd be happy to kill one another if it weren't for Hawke.

But I really don't see how anyone can possibly look past Anders being happy with selling someone back into slavery--who has never done anything to him or to hurt his cause, but whom he shares moral disagreements with--and think they'd ever want each other.

To a lesser degree, this is also how I feel about Morrigan and Alistair. Morrigan, in particular, I can't see ever "stooping" to do anything with someone she sees as stupid and useless as Alistair.

[(Anonymous)]

It's kind of sad because I think that if Anders had retained his Awakenings personality and never merged with poor Justice, then I think he and Fenris could have eventually...well, maybe not gotten along exactly but I think they could have at least come to respect each other at some point. As it is though, I don't get the appeal of Anders/Fenris. Sure, I like hatemance as much as anyone but I could never get into that pairing in particular. It might have something to do with the tendency to severely woobify Anders though

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think they are really the embodiment of what one another hated, they just... clashed on one fundamental opinion, and that was that. I mean, Fenris hates mages, and Anders is a mage, so there's that - but Anders has no reason to really hate Fenris for "what he is". And even in the case of Fenris hating Anders, I think it's more the fact that Anders envisions a society of free mages, and it's that that repulses Fenris more than him being born with magical powers.

Point being, I think it's just their different opinions on mages that creates a clash and seeps into everything else. I don't think they actual embody everything the other hates.

Yeah, though, on Morrigan and Alistair. It's DA:O's popular "hate ship". Similar to Anders/Fenris, they bicker but aren't ever shown having affection for one another, even deep down inside. But as with Anders/Fenris, I think a fic author could develop the relationship into something. Morrigan/Alistair is more just a difference in personality, I think, whereas I think Anders and Fenris have very similar personalities.

[(Anonymous)]

That's fair. They aren't quite at that level--Fenris isn't a templar and Anders isn't a Tevinter slaveowner.

I guess I more meant that they are the epitome of everything the other hates in their "type"--for a non-Tevinter mage, he is an apostate, an abomination, trying to free other mages, losing control of himself and not containing it effectively, etc. Fenris is someone who hates mages, wants to see them imprisoned, is alright with Tranquility, and as icing, has experienced slavery and still doesn't pity mages.

You're spot on, though. It's a difference in ideals for Fenris/Anders, a difference in personality (which feeds into ideals) for Morrigan/Alistair. But, the thing with Anders/Fenris is that, for Anders in particular, the mage issue is such a fundamental part of his personality that it's just impossible to see them working out.

[(Anonymous)]

and, as icing, has experienced slavery and still doesn't pity mages.

You do realize that he doesn't pity them because he was a slave to a mage [a blood mage at that], right? So it's not him being pig-headed or dense that's keeping him from feeling pity?

[(Anonymous)]

...? Yes? I'm well aware. I'm describing what Anders feels about Fenris.

[saku]

i think the reason anders approves of giving fenris back to danarius is because he is really put off by fenris' understandable hatred of mages. anders makes it pretty clear through his thoughts and actions that violence or other aggression targeting mage haters is justified. so i think anders makes it a lot more personal than just a fundamental lack of agreement on one thing, even if that was the initial cause of their rivalry.

i think fenris inherently being wary of mages is a part of who he is, is a part of his past and his mentality in general as a result of his situation, so i would argue that anders does have a reason to hate fenris for who and what he is.

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree, I don't think Anders really ever suggests that targeting "mage haters" is justified. If you're referring to him blowing up the chantry, he did that because he believed that it was the best catalyst for mages to fight for their freedom, rather than maintain the old status quo. I don't think he ever thought of it was "killing mage haters" - maybe killing those who actively "enslave" mages, he'd agree with, but I don't remember a single thing from the game that suggests he was fine with killing people who were suspicious of magic.

I honestly feel that the only reason Anders "approves" of giving Fenris to Danarius was for game mechanic reasons, so that every action, good or evil, Hawke takes, some Companions will like it and some won't. I didn't think it was really in character. But the only in game explanation, I think, was just that he hated Fenris that much. Fenris is probably an easy guy to hate for his sullen and biting personality, especially to the mage companions, after all. His anti-mage stance definitely had a lot to do with it, but I wouldn't really say that's an identity that Anders would violently target or something.

[saku]

i wasnt referring to any instance specifically, just his reactions to mage hate throughout the game (sans the chantry explosion thing since that was a deeper event and i dont necessarily think it was a "bad" one). there are a lot of dialogue options that lead solely to approval or indifference for all companions, or disapproval/indifference, so im not sure that was the reasoning behind the writers' choice.

i do think it was out of character for anders though, like i said - so much so that i was left baffled when i learned he approves of the choice.

people being suspicious or wary of magic isnt really the issue. i think anybody who supported templar activities as a result of suspicions re: magic is what anders is really hostile towards, and fenris was not shy about making it clear that he thought mages belonged in circles where they could be closely monitored. anders probably saw this mentality (rightfully) as a threat. not enough to ruin fenris himself, but enough that, when seeing an opportunity being taken that would rid himself of fenris - even in a really awful way - he was all for it.

[i_paint_the_sky]

I eventually stopped having Alistair and Morrigan in the same party because their conversations were annoying me. Though to be fair, I have a feeling Morrigan possible doesn't dislike Alistair quite as much as she claims to.

I don't have much to say about Fenders, everyone else in the thread pretty much nailed it. Though I will add that, oddly enough, Anders is somehow the only mage in Kirkwall who doesn't use blood magic at some point, unless you consider the merge with Justice and I'm not entirely sure I would count that.