[ SECRET POST #2791 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2791 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 058 secrets from Secret Submission Post #399.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

OP

[(Anonymous)]

That's not what I said. Fandom thinks that's what writers think, and in fairness, a lot of them do. But fandom's answer is doing a 180 and saying "no, feminine woman = well written, kick ass woman = weak," and that's not any better.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Is that really fandom's answer?

I mean, I agree if people are doing it, it's dumb.

Re: OP

[dreemyweird]

Is a woman with "a will of iron" really "a feminine woman"? I mean... it kind of sounds like another version of the shooting and punching girl, not a 180.

Re: OP

[ginainthekingsroad]

I don't think "iron will" and "feminine" are mutually exclusive at all. I think an "iron will" means having a ton of determination and focus on achieving their goal (perhaps to the exclusion of others). It has nothing to do with physical strength, it's an inward quality. And femininity is about presentation; in the ASOIAF universe, about how best to get by in a strongly patriarchal society by applying that femininity.

That combo definitely applies to Sansa, where it is played sympathetically with regards to her hostage/pawn status; but it can also describe Cersei, where it is being used as a tragic flaw.

I actually think I really like that combination, as the first character that jumped to mind with regards to that wasn't from ASOIAF at all, but Brenda Johnson from The Closer.

Re: OP

[dreemyweird]

Point taken :) I think the secret+OP's subsequent explanations are worded in a way that suggests that having a will of iron is in itself a feminine quality, though, which is a bit ???

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Fandom doesn't say that, in my experience. Fandom is more inclined to say that making a female character kick ass in order to be seen as strong is lazy writing.

Re: OP

[firstmoonie]

First of all Sansa is a very well written woman who has human flaws and struggles to survive with the upbringing she had. (let's get this one out here)

Second, I agree. But this type of thinking is linked to unfair bashing and belittling targeted to feminine characters. As long as well written, both of types are interesting. But tbh in the recent years "ubah cool" woman archetype turned into such a joke, I can understand why fans are searching for more "relatable" characters.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

No, that's not what fandom thinks, IME. It's usually, "But what else is there to her besides that?"