[ SECRET POST #2819 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2819 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 054 secrets from Secret Submission Post #403.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[kaijinscendre]

As someone who just started watching Game of Thrones (I just finished episode 2 of season 3)...why do people defend Cersei? Are they trying to say she is not a terrible person? Or that she is justified in her actions?

[(Anonymous)]

Because she's a strong independent womyn and if you dislike her then you're a misogynistic shitlord neckbeard.

[kaijinscendre]

Then consider me a neckbeard because I HATE her.

[firstmoonie]

Fun fact: her stance on feminism is borderline internal misogyny.

Cersei is a three dimensional character but pro-feminist? Bitch please.

When people defend Cersei in feminism norms, I almost lose my shit.

[visp]

I wouldn't say she's "pro-feminist" as much as a good example of how a patriarchal society damages women.

[(Anonymous)]

It is amazing how somehow her psychopathy is patriarchy's fault and not the fault of her being a psychopath. Many of the other female characters dealing with the same patriarchy don't turn out to be PSYCHOPATHS.

[(Anonymous)]

You must be so boring in discussions.

[visp]

I wouldn't say she's a psychopath any more than Melisandre, Arya or Jaime is - just deeply fucked up due to an extreme temperament combined with shitty circumstances (religion and slavery for Melisandre, Aerys and Tywin and the martial side of chivalry for Jaime, a whole host of events for Arya). Cersei's fucked up circumstance just happened to be sexism.

[a_potato]

Going by the colloquial definition, she's not a psychopath, because she actually cares about people other than herself (not very many people, mind, but still enough to check off the box).

In any case, it's very possible that she would have been an awful person no matter what. However, the choices she makes are still informed and constrained by her society -- and that society happens to be a very patriarchal one.

[(Anonymous)]

See, that's an interesting point to me. Right now I'm rereading Feast For Crows, the one where Cersei's suicidally incompetent regency is screwing everything up, and I feel like she has two separate problems that interact really badly.

The first is that she doesn't really have any idea how things actually work. How money works, what peasants are good for, how wars are fought... it's all just vague notions to her. And that, yes, is shit she would have been trained in had she been born with a wang. Tywin's dismissal of her potential is a real loss on that level.

However, her real failure, the thing that drives most of her worst decisions, is that she's the most self-centered person in the entire story. All her decisions are based on what she wants at that particular moment, and she never thinks beyond that. She doesn't like other people being smarter than her or having power she thinks should be hers, so she surrounds herself with incompetents and suck-ups. She packs the Kingsguard with handpicked morons she thinks she's in control of. She lets the church rearm itself in exchange for something she happens to want at that moment, and doesn't wonder for a second whether that might be consequences of that decision. She's thrilled to hear Ser Loras is on the brink of death because she dislikes him, ignoring the fact that he's the last competent knight in the Kingsguard. And so on and so forth. All her decisions are shortsighted, petulant, and entirely about herself.

Patriarchy kept her from achieving her potential, yes. But from what we see of her from childhood on, I'm not sure we're missing out on much there.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes. I'm almost done with a reread of the books and in her chapters, the overwhelming idea I kept getting struck by was how much she hates women. Sure, it's clearly a product of the society and being raised by Tywin, but crap, Cersei hates women.

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, you know, I hadn't thought about that angle, but on reflection, you're absolutely right. It's not even that she consciously hates women as a category, apart from resenting being born as one, but she comes up with some reason to hate every individual woman she's ever met in her life. That is fucked UP.

[(Anonymous)]

So, what terrible thing did the show's Cercei do that would be worse than what nearly all other characters in the show have done? Hating book!Cercei I get, but the show erased nearly all of her shit and exchanged it for making her a victim of abuse and rape at the hands of her loved ones.

[kaijinscendre]

Well, I have read up on the book background to supplement my understanding of the world/people in GOT. So that also colors my view of her. But she is a manipulative, asshole who has terrorized Sansa (implicitly and explicitly) since the beginning of the show. She is also part of the reason Bran has been paralyzed.

And I don't care for people trying to excuse her actions by saying she was abused/raped. She is also an intelligent adult who understands how the world works (and has a great deal of power compared to most other people). If I could not excuse it in the real world, I am not going to excuse it in a book.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't disagree with what you've said, but I also don't think you can put the blame for Bran on Cersei. Granted, Jaime was trying to protect both of them, and their kids, but that was a split-second decision he made on his own. I don't know what Cersei would have done if Jaime hadn't shoved him out the window, but as it stands, she wasn't part of it. I don't think you can blame someone for what another person does in defense of you.

[(Anonymous)]

This.

[(Anonymous)]

She had Lady killed.

[diet_poison]

Did that happen in the show too?

I almost stopped reading the first book after that scene.

[(Anonymous)]

It did. Still horrible.

[(Anonymous)]

No, Robert had. His word was the law, not hers.

[diet_poison]

Robert was pretty fucked up too. But the malice in that scene came from Cersei (and Joffrey), and that is why those characters got more of an emotional reaction from it, imo.

[(Anonymous)]

Forcing Sansa into marriage with Joffrey?

[(Anonymous)]

She's a dangerously incompetent monarch, and that's enough.

This is a story about people at the top of a feudal system, so whether they can handle their job is actually important. All the people Cersei's personally had killed, including the babies and the nice dire doggie, are a drop in the bucket compared to those she condemns with a wave of her hand and a vague "The throne can't afford to feed the Riverlands" or "If any object, have their heads off, that should silence the others" or whatever other inane shit she's spouting today.

[(Anonymous)]

I hated her the first time I watched the show. Full on haaaaaaated. I re-watched, and I was like, "Okay. I get Cersei. She's Arya without the awesome family."

Arya is NOT a nice girl, but I'd definitely prefer to have a dad like Ned to a dad like Tywin.

[(Anonymous)]

Huh, I never made that connection. I was always trying to compare/contrast her with Sansa. It adds a bit more to Tywin's bit with Arya too.