[ SECRET POST #2819 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2819 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 054 secrets from Secret Submission Post #403.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. http://i.imgur.com/usmC22D.png

[world_eater]

Are the smart troll secrets back? (I'm not trying to accuse you, but this topic is super wanky, haha)

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Not trolling. Tyrion's not even my favorite character. I'm just annoyed by the double-standards in the social justice areas of fandom.

And before anyone asks, double-standards apply when people are against Cersei as well; if someone defends a character like Tywin or Roose Bolton and hates Cersei for her actions then yes that's hypocritical on their part because Tywin and Roose are both worse than she is.

[(Anonymous)]

I hope so!

[diet_poison]

It's also been run into the ground. (And people will still keep wanking about it. I may even join in...)

[(Anonymous)]

I can't say I've ever seen Tyrion hate. At the very least, there seem to be more people who see Cersei as a magnificent bastard and Tyrion as a flawed person like the rest of the characters.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not involved in this fandom but this wank actually seeps out of the Game of Thrones fandom enough for me to say I wish y'all would just live and let live.

[kaijinscendre]

As someone who just started watching Game of Thrones (I just finished episode 2 of season 3)...why do people defend Cersei? Are they trying to say she is not a terrible person? Or that she is justified in her actions?

[(Anonymous)]

Because she's a strong independent womyn and if you dislike her then you're a misogynistic shitlord neckbeard.

[(Anonymous)]

So, what terrible thing did the show's Cercei do that would be worse than what nearly all other characters in the show have done? Hating book!Cercei I get, but the show erased nearly all of her shit and exchanged it for making her a victim of abuse and rape at the hands of her loved ones.

[(Anonymous)]

I hated her the first time I watched the show. Full on haaaaaaated. I re-watched, and I was like, "Okay. I get Cersei. She's Arya without the awesome family."

Arya is NOT a nice girl, but I'd definitely prefer to have a dad like Ned to a dad like Tywin.

[firstmoonie]

He's one of the best characters in the series and IMHO, his chapters are always the best.

ONTD is never right on about opinions anyway.

(He's flawed so what? This makes him an even better character in my eyes.)

[(Anonymous)]

Seriously? His chapters in ADWD almost ruined the entire book.

[silverr]

Sorry to be an arse, but ... who gives a fuck what tumblr and ONTD think?

One can see Tyrion as one of the "lighter grey" in the series, and not be a neckbeard.
Once can also be all over the topic of patriarchal oppression in general, and even understand the fierceness of Cersei's maternal instinct, but also think she's definitely a "darker grey." She's not quite as bad as Ramsay, but she's a nasty bit of work.

I want women characters to have the same range as men characters; this mean that sometimes we'll get a woman who's villanous. Which is fine by me, as long as the villains aren't always of the femme fatale variety.

(It just occurred to me that Cersei is possibly modelled on Livia Augusta, mother of Tiberius. Brilliant and, when it comes to her children, amoral.)

[(Anonymous)]

It shouldn't be you have to defend one and criticize the other though. Tyrion is a lot more sympathetic of a character than Cersei, but they've both done shitty things. People forget that both their characters are similar too -- they're both people who the society of Westeros has cast aside -- they might be the children of Tywin Lannister, but because Cersei is a woman and Tyrion is deformed, they both feel compelled to do shitty things in order to get ahead or protect their interests.

[alwaysbeenasmiler]

I agree with the comment that GoT is the wrong fandom to play the moral highground in; everyone in that series does shitty shitty things, the people who don't, well they sorta die.

I am not a big fan of Cersei and I think that she has a valid reason for acting how she does but two wrongs do not make a right and I do not absolutely believe that she was ever qualified to rule? Not because she's a woman but because she has so many negative opinions of other people (women included). Instead of bringing people together, she cast accusations and brought people in and out of favor at the drop of the hat. I think that if Cersei wanted to wring true feminist change, she'd ally herself with her other sisters to do it (Margaery anyone?). But she doesn't, she clings to her belief that she is right and everyone else is wrong (but then this is something that everyone in the series clings to).

In George R.R Martin's stories; people do really shitty things, enough said.

[alwaysbeenasmiler]

And I also don't condone Tyrion's actions, yes.. I like him but I never felt the same once he did what he did. A part of me shifted as wierd as that sounds.

[ypsilon42]

I am a bit torn on that subject. On the one hand I think you are right and there is a lot of hypocritical behavior. A lot of these people just ignore that the ableist society they live in has shaped Tyrion (just as Cersei was affected by misogyny).

But on the other hand, I have to admit that I am much quicker to defend Cersei than Tyrion myself. Idk, I freely admit that she is a horrible person, but she is also a really well written character and a lot of the hate she gets is undeserved. I mean, there are some people that hate her because she is a horrible person that does moraly reprehensive things (like for example ordering the murder of children). But there are also a ton of people that hate her for misogynistic reasons or without acknowledging the influence the patriarchy had on her character. And that's where I think a lot of the stanning for Cersei is actually backlash against that.

Tyrion is, in my opinion at least, a more morally grey character. I think the hate for him on tumblr and ONTD comes from a similar place as the Cersei stanning. Tyrion as a character is super popular with both mainstream viewers and critics and also in some parts of the fandom like westeros.org. The thing is, though, that most of these fans never acknowledge his misogynistic tendencies for example. I think there is some backlash against him as a character because of frustration about that.

(Additionally, I also believe that most people (at least on tumblr/ONTD) have a much easier time relating to misogyny/sexism than to ableism.)

The new Braveheart looks great

[(Anonymous)]

^

[(Anonymous)]

IMO I think people often forget that like real people, these characters are all complex. Cersei isn't "evil" just because she likes to be evil. Cersei is power hungry and eager to prove a strong player in the Game to prove to her father and others that she's more than just Robert's wife/Joffrey's mother. She lost her mother at a young age so she still harbors a very immature grudge on Tyrion and try to make his life harder than it already is, because it's easier to do that than want to stick up for an imp. Cersei doesn't choose to screw Ned Stark over because she is just that huge of a fucking bitch, she justifies that she's not only helping the Lannisters maintain power over Westeros, but she also sees herself protecting her kids.
Do I like Cersei? Not at all, I hate her. BUT I do feel bad for her at times with the circumstances she is forced to be in or have the decisions that are presented to her.

Tyrion is not saved from this either. I love Tyrion. He's one of my favorite characters, because yes, he's a drunk and sleeps with whores like it's no big deal, but he's damn smart and you can see he wants to do what he knows is the right thing to do. He doesn't want the Lannisters to just win, so he father can ecsentially run things, he wants to find out who is scheming for power so he can stop them. He is kind to those who seem to have been given little kindness, because he's an imp, and he knows he's in a good position given that he is an imp. However, there's a dark side to him that I couldn't really cheer on too much, and that was when he killed Shae and then his father. It felt fucking great when he killed his father, but on the other hand, it doesn't make him better than his own father. As for the Shae thing, to me, it wasn't like, "Yay! Kill that bitch!" It was more, "Holy shit, there's those years of being treated like shit/a joke to his father once again boiling over. I can't watch this." IMO it shows that Tyrion isn't always going to do what I think is the right thing. He can be just as ruthless and selfish and petty.

I would rather see complex characters over mostly black and white characters. It makes you question your own morals, at least, on a fictional level. I also like to hear what other people's opinions on these characters and their actions rather than just be like, "I'm with the good/bad guys."

[(Anonymous)]

I think the backlash against Tyrion is because he's so lauded by the fanbase at large despite being just as flawed as everyone else in GOT and because he's arguably the most whitewashed character on the show. Not that Cersei isn't also toned down a lot, but that apparently makes no difference as she still gets shat on by most of the fandom for reasons that reek of misogyny.

[(Anonymous)]

Tyrion deserves hate for being such a boring toolbag in the latest book. At least Cersei's entertaining.

[(Anonymous)]

GOT fandom is a joke.

[philstar22]

This is so funny to me because I always see the exact opposite. Because Tyrion is a relatively good character, snarky, and many people's favorites he gets absolved of his faults or they get justified. Whereas because Cersei is evil, that means that the reasons behind her character and choices can never be discussed or explored and any discussion of misogyny in relation to her character is seen as absolving her.

[arcadiaego]

I just find it hard to get that worked up about defending *either* of them. Yes, they've had bad things happen to them, arguably Tyrion more so. No, that does not absolve them of the terrible choices they repeatedly make. Same goes for Jamie too while we're at it. I can never work out if people are stanning Lanisters ironically.