fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2820 ]

[ SECRET POST #2820 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2820 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 045 secrets from Secret Submission Post #403.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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06. http://i.imgur.com/mmeh140.png

Steve McQueen said Ford was the worst? What???? How did he come to that conclusion?

Because he knew it was wrong but still did it.

As opposed to the guy who raped and terrorized people?

I don't agree with him, just stating his views.

I didn't mean to insinuate that you did, I was reacting to the rationalization.

Oops sorry for misunderstanding you.

because the guy who raped and terrorized people was clearly a psychopath and the "nice" guy who knew better still participated in and profited from slavery? yeah, the fassy character was worse, but he never fancied himself a good guy.

Yes he did. Fassbender's character thought what he was doing was justified because of his religion*. He didn't think what he was doing was evil because to him black slaves are not people and what he was doing was approved by God.

*Of course I have not seen the movie in a while, so perhaps I am confusing two characters

NAYRT - I just watched the film this weekend, and you are correct. Epps (Fassbender's character) repeatedly justified himself and his brutality with religious 'reasons'.

I think that Ford was actually a minister, and Epps was just a bible-thumping jerkwad.

Something about how Ford sympathized with slaves and more importantly viewed them as people, yet still took part in the business. It is horrifically detestable, so I can see where McQueen was coming from.

I can see where he -might- see that from a POV so far removed from slavery. But when choosing between who is worst, I am going to go with the person who rapes and tortures people.

I can see where he -might- see that from a POV so far removed from slavery.

It's not that far removed at all - http://cwmemory.com/2014/01/28/william-prince-ford-stonewall-jackson-black-mans-friend/

"We need to stop trying to understand the history of slavery in this country by imagining who we wouldn’t mind being enslaved to."

QFT

But this isn't trying to understand the history of slavery. It is more, "Of these two, which is a worse person." Philosophically Ford could be considered worse. Realistically (to me) Fassbender's character was worse.

Understanding the history doesn't mean becoming magical objective robots without opinions about that history.

(this is the anon you originally replied to :])
I was actually about to reply that the perspective hinges upon looking at their actions abstractly or realistically and that we can only really get the context of McQueen's statement with the hindsight afforded to us, but you obviously get that! But I would still say both perspectives are valid, even as removed as one of them might be from the realities of the situation. I myself don't necessarily agree with McQueen, but he does raise a point that is worth dissecting.

(no subject)

kaijinscendre - 2014-09-22 23:48 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-09-22 23:59 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-09-23 02:45 (UTC) - Expand

I haven't read the interview in question, but I'd imagine it's something to do with Ford believing himself to be in the right while still owning slaves and profiting from slave labour.

I don't think Ford was especially villainized in the film- at least not any more than he villainized himself by his actions. After all, he did keep slaves, and he did hire and continue to employ a violent racist to oversee their work, and in the course of buying and selling slaves, he did split up families. And they spell this out in the movie: Solomon defends Ford, but Eliza says he's as bad as the rest of them. Northrup's IRL viewpoint is still represented- it's just that others in the film disagree with him.

I agree with this - I hadn't seen McQueen's comments and I interpreted that part of the film as a powerful reminder of the insidiousness of systematic evils like slavery. Even someone like Ford, instinctively a kind, empathic man, is so caught up in that system that he can't see its intrinsic evil, and feels that he's justified in doing things like splitting up families because of the economic framework. I'm not sure if Eliza's right to think that he's _as_ bad as the others, but she' s certainly right that he's bad.

Eppes would do horrible things in any society, because he' s a sadistic sociopath. Ford does bad things because he's been corrupted by the wickedness of the social system.

i can't really fault mcqueen for viewing a guy who found the institution of slavery repugnant but participated in it anyway more harshly than a sadist who got joy out of hurting people. sherlock could have sold his slaves if the institution bothered him so much, he still would have been very well off.

the characters were both bad, just in different ways.

Northup has some serious Stockholm Syndrome with Ford. A slave owner is still a slave owner no matter how much his slaves admire him. With Ford it's more sinister because he seems so kind and caring on the surface but in reality he has no problem buying people and subjecting them to a life of forced servitude.

Oh for fuck's sake. Two things.

First, saying "I'd rather be enslaved by the generally sane guy than Rape Finnes" isn't Stockholm Syndrome. It's the sort of rational decision a person in horrible conditions has to make. Northup did not have the luxury of an objective perspective. He had to live it.

Second, keep in mind that 12 Years a Slave is a slave narrative written and published in 1853, while slavery was still practiced in the United States. It's activist literature. The message that "all white slave owners are irredeemably evil" is not really going to help the abolitonist cause.

You find similar themes in Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass and Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl by Harriet Jacobs: that slavery is an institution that corrupts otherwise good people.

Wow. I've always thought Bendysnatch Humperdink was really funny-looking. TIL - throw a hat on him and he's pretty.

(Haven't seen the movie, sorry to be off-topic)

I actually agree with him. I've not seen the entire movie, but we watched parts of it for my history class recently (primarily dealing with Ford), and I think that from a moral standpoint, Ford was worse. He clearly respects Solomon, he thinks of slaves as actual people... and he still owns them anyway. He sells Eliza because she won't stop crying and his wife finds it depressing. His concern for his own financial situation comes before the lives of the people he holds in bondage.

When Solomon tries to tell him that he was wrongfully taken, Ford says that he "cannot hear that", because he won't be able to justify his continued participation in this institution if he knows for certain that Solomon isn't really a slave. Ford knows that slaves are mistreated, and he thinks it's wrong - he's clearly uncomfortable with separating Eliza from her children - but he doesn't actually change his own behavior. That's why he's awful. Fassbender's character is just a sadist.

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