[ SECRET POST #2839 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2839 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 060 secrets from Secret Submission Post #406.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[scrubber]

Haha, I'm so sorry the responses you got missed the point so hard because fact of the matter is P4 did chicken out with it's characters a little. All these teenagers with all these issues conflicting with expectations of others and coincidentally their final choices (and what ultimately makes them happy) all fall in line with what society wants from them anyway. I love Persona 4, but this aspect is really obvious.

Naoto could've been the boldest character in this regard but that honor will have to go to Kanji because Naoto's narrative was still undermined by various bits of sexist crap that leaked into her story. One of those bits does include the fact that in her romance route you can have her dress up in a girl's uniform for you, which was really just fanservice for the guys who wanted reassurance that yes, Naoto is indeed a girl beneath it all. Her surface level rejection of femininity just makes her feminine moments all the more appealing. Like the fact that her boobs are the biggest of the girls, for some reason. That's like a joke from a hentai.

This happens all the time with masculine female characters. That people are seriously saying "what's wrong with Naoto in a dress????" is so silly because what's wrong with Naoto NOT in a dress ever? Apparently something, because shit like that will never happen. Let us all put our heads together and think of why that might be.

[(Anonymous)]

TBH it feels like they were always going to get criticized for chickening out because different people want different, and mutually exclusive, things from the character.

[scrubber]

Maybe having a variety of outcomes instead of all the characters not changing the status quo (except their own inner feelings) even a tiny bit would've been a start.

[(Anonymous)]

The thing is, it shouldn't be a big deal she's in a dress. But people make it a big deal. And also? No, it wasn't fanservice, despite poor localization! That entire moment was about Naoto being comfortable with no longer outwardly identifying as a boy.

But yes, they chickened out. Despite calling out some heavy fucking sexism in a lot of places. But because they didn't do what you wanted to do, they chickened out. Despite Rise deciding to use her status as an idol to help little girls be comfortable with themselves. Despite Chie realizing she didn't have to change because being an Ideal Woman didn't matter. Despite Yukiko realizing that she could walk out at any time if she became actually dissatisfied with her life. But nope, because they didn't run away from their problems outright by quitting, they chickened out.

[scrubber]

If it shouldn't have been a big deal, why did it happen? What did it prove? Why is there yet another arc of a tomboy showing her feminine side as proof of growth and depth? Do you think this is a coincidence? If Naoto was a male there would be no such expectation, that only exists because she's female and needs to prove it, or she's obviously missing something. The options in the game where you pressure Naoto into being more feminine are presented without judgement or consequence, because the writers sympathize with that desire.

Look, Persona as a whole took some great steps forward. It did a lot of things right. That doesn't mean it's perfect, it dropped the ball in places. Just because something makes you feel good doesn't mean it's beyond criticism.

I'm glad you agree they chickened out though. I mean, that much was obvious.

[feotakahari]

Thank you. That helped a lot.

This really is something I'm trying to address in my fic. I've got one character who does come to terms with her identity, and doesn't really change. Another character changes quite a bit, and another realizes she doesn't need to decide just yet what she is, and all of them are fine and okay.

[scrubber]

God, did you hurt yourself coming up with all of these different resolutions? Apparently it's a lot of work.

[feotakahari]

In a sense. Some of them were inspired by fics that were physically painful to read. (One of the "villain" characters argues for forced total integration of cultural minorities, destroying every aspect of their culture that makes them different. She was inspired by a bad characterization of Princess Celestia. I wish I was kidding.)