[ SECRET POST #348 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #348 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #050.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 2 ] repeats, [ 1 ] too big.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Thursday, December 20th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

Let's face it, most fic (horrible as it is) is someone's bid for attention of some kind. Call me cynical, but I often see drabbles as the lazy man's call for attention. Like "I can't be bothered to come up with something better, so here's a scrap of the fantasy I masturbate too. Enjoy." But, I only think this way when the drabble is just that, a drabble author with nothing else on the record. If they've written some pieces of varying length, I just figure they're having fun, getting over a block, whatever. I don't hate drabble authors. It'd be too hypocritical of me ^_^;

[norrowa.livejournal.com]

... yeah, but-- Okay, let's say I get a plotbunny for a little fluffy scene between two characters I ship. I write it up, and it clocks in at 168 words. It's nothing particularly stunning or deep in its prose or meaning; it's fluff, it's cute.

Let's say I post it to an LJ comm for this ship. A bunch of other people comment on the post to say "aww, that was cute! I really liked it!" or something in that vein. It gave them enjoyment, and yeah, it didn't take much effort on my part, but -- who cares? Other people enjoy it, I enjoy knowing that they enjoyed it. The secret says "why bother" -- well, why not? ^^ If it makes me happy, and it makes some other people happy, it doesn't make me somehow worse for writing it and it doesn't make them somehow worse for enjoying it. Even if that's all I do.

Also, some people might write nothing but drabbles, that doesn't mean they're not putting a lot of effort into it or taking it seriously. I mean, that's not to say all drabble-writers do -- yeah, a lot of drabbles are just fluff or filler. But if people were only allowed to write Deep and Serious and Appropriately Lengthy Fic, fandom would be a much less active place, I think. I have a lot of respect for good drabble-writers, and in most cases I don't mind mediocre or even bad drabble-writers. People have no obligation to write long fic, nor do they have to write long fic to be writers of quality. ::shrug::

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

Moving away from your point for a moment, I have to say that I'm amazed that we're arguing over drabbles. Just a few years ago, they weren't really a big part of fandom. That's not to say that they weren't written, they just weren't such a big deal. So now all of a sudden they are and I find it strange that people are getting to defensive about them. Why are people getting defensive about them? I question their value and withing five minutes I have people jumping down my throat. What is it about the drabble that people must leap forth to defend? Is it that it really cannot stand on its own and needs all those people to defend its honor?

As I've said, I do drabble. Drabbles are a good quick medium to practice or get over a block or toss out an idea that you don't want to take the full nine yards. That really is their main purpose.

I suppose that my biggest beef with these drabble only writers is the attitude that what they're doing is good enough and they don't have to bother expanding their horizons. Don't have to bother? If you stop looking for the next thing to conquer, you might as well be dead. If you just stop growing, don't expect me to respect every paragraph you plop down on the internet. Ain't happening.

[norrowa.livejournal.com]

Mm, I hope I'm not coming across as pissy or defensive or anything XD Definitely not what I'm trying for; I'm just bored, interested in discussion, etc. etc. The reason a lot of people are responding to you is because, well, you did ask for opinions and all.

Anyway, I think the reason a lot of people are getting up in arms over the secret, though, is because it paints all drabbles as being worthless, essentially, and also all drabble-writers as wasting their time and "can't commit" or do anything "substantial". If you post a secret saying that on a public, popular secret comm, of course a lot of people are going to respond, sometimes angrily.

As I've said, I do drabble. Drabbles are a good quick medium to practice or get over a block or toss out an idea that you don't want to take the full nine yards. That really is their main purpose.

I think that this, ultimately, is where we disagree. I don't see the drabble as being primarily or limited to that; not all drabbles are half-formed ideas or practice exercises. A lot of them are very high-quality pieces of fiction in their own right. And yeah, a lot of them are crap, but like I've said before, that's not limited to drabbles.

Don't have to bother?

Honestly, in my opinion, it's... fanfic, so really, you kinda don't.

Additionally... well, if there was someone who only wrote long 20,000 word fics, would you say they had to expand their horizons? is what it comes down to. If you would... uh, I'd still have to disagree with you, actually, because I think that even within one form you can have a lot of variety. If you have someone who writes really, really good drabbles, but can't write longer fics for the life of them, does that make them a bad writer/not worthy of respect for writing drabbles? Or for 'not trying something new'? Even if their drabbles are about new subject matter each time, and are really really effective?

I think a good analogy would be... let's say you have four painters. One does very physically large but rather rough, sloppy, and bad paintings; one does physically very large and very, very rich and detailed paintings; one does physically rather small and sloppy/bad paintings; and one does physically very small but still very, very good paintings. Would you say that the first painter has to start drawing physically small paintings in order to broaden his horizons and grow? Or that the fourth painter has to draw physically large paintings? The second and third are both bad, but which one is better, the first or the fourth?

... if that makes sense XD;

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

Now you're moving into that nebulous grounds of "What is art?" I'd really rather not go there. That is a dark and wanky place that I'm just not stupid enough to tread on.

I will say this, I think that even fanworks deserve your best efforts. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right (well, whole-heartedly, but not necessarily what someone else deems as proper). I think too many people in fandom slide by with the excuse that it's only fandom? I ran a fanfiction panel once where some girl insisted that she would write her fics half-assed if she wanted, but she'd do it properly when it counted. So...you're not practicing getting it right now, but you're going to nail it later on when it counts? Excuse me for being cynical, but it really doesn't work that way. If you're going to do it, put some effort into it. If you're not going to do that, I will not respect you or your work.

Now, back to drabbles. No matter how artistically they are executed and no matter how anyone else argues, a drabble really is a piece of an unseen whole. Now, I'm working off the idea that a drabble is 100 words, maybe 200 but that's pushing it. No matter what you say within that limited word length, there is always something else that is unsaid. There's always something missing. Drabbles simply cannot be complete.

Yes, I will withhold my respect from someone who is afraid to try something new. If you say "Well I write good drabbles and that's good enough". I just don't feel that it's good enough. If you're not constantly trying to improve, then you've just fallen into a stagnant hole and ya might as well go buy your plot now. What else is there for you to do if what you've done is good enough?

[(Anonymous)]

Way to miss the point of drabbles entirely.

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

Oh please anonymous-chan! Won't you tell me the point of drabbles!

Come on, if you're going to toss out a dissenting opinion, at least take the time to elaborate, otherwise keep your two cents to yourself.

[(Anonymous)]

Drabbles aren't about completeness.

Stop overgeneralizing. If you can't take the time to prove your incredibly arrogant points then you should keep them to yourself.

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

That's funny, most of the people commenting are talking about how much work it takes to create a polished or complete drabble. So far, I've seen no other viewpoints that agree with yours. So that's just your opinion and this is mine. I have just as much of a right to spout my opinion as you have to spout yours. If you don't like it, you get to argue, but that's about it. Being an ass about it doesn't convince anyone of your viewpoint.

[(Anonymous)]

tl;dr

You should drabble more, since obviously you haven't learned what they're good practice for yet.

Stop hiding behind your verbosity.

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

My reply was 84 words long.

That's less than these drabbles you're so vehemently defending.

IRONY.

So here's a novel idea for you. GTFO.

[(Anonymous)]

With pleasure~

[coloredink.livejournal.com]

I'm going to have to disagree on the point that a drabble "cannot" be complete. I think the key is to find a story that only needs to be 100 words long, or that can survive the given constraints. Of course, ah ha ha ha, this is quite the challenge in itself.

A while back, there was a "six word stories" meme running around. One of the most amazing stories I've ever read was one of the examples used for this meme: "For sale: baby shoes, slightly used." I would not call this incomplete. I think it somehow manages to convey a--very tragic, heartbreaking--story in only six words.

One of my writing instructors once passed on a piece of wisdom that her mentor gave her: Every sentence must have three reasons to be there. This may be an impossible goal, she said, but in reaching for it, you'll at least find two reasons for every sentence to be there, and that alone makes your writing more powerful.

I write drabbles for practice, not to get myself past a block or help me flesh out an idea, but because when I have only 100 words, every word has to mean something. There is no room for superfluousness in a drabble. All my drabbles so far have pretty much sucked, but I hope I'll get there someday.

[forchancookie.livejournal.com]

I find that most, if not all, of these drabbles leave so many questions behind, they're just incomplete.

Even the example you've provided, which is a famous piece from Hemingway, leaves so much unsaid. It hints at a story, but I cannot feel that it is a story in and of itself.

That's kind of how I feel about drabbles. They're hints at bigger pictures, but you only get that little drop and it's not enough to refresh your thirst, therefore I can't see it as a whole.