fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2865 ]

[ SECRET POST #2865 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2865 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Once Upon a Time]

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03.

[Transformers: Prime]

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04.

[Star Trek: The Next Generation]

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05.

[Malcolm Tucker, The Thick of It]

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06.

[Once Upon a Time]

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07.

[Flight Rising]

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08.

[Transformers: Prime]

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09.

[Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 013 secrets from Secret Submission Post #409.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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When you say "defend Ward's actions" do you mean they defend it as not being truly evil or somehow excused by his pass? Or do you mean defend as in consistent with his characterization?

Because while I agree the former is annoying, the latter group isn't particularly bad in my opinion and it's something I've done in the past.

To give an example, I'll frequently "defend" Anakin Skywalker's actions as being completely wrong and/or evil but understandable given his previous characterization and his backstory. So while I'll defend why I can see him making the choices he makes I don't think that excuses how terrible and evil they are. Just that they make sense from a characterization standpoint.

*excused by his past

Check out the comments on this sneak peak posted today for some examples of the former.

http://tvline.com/2014/11/06/agents-of-shield-season-2-video-triplett-targets-ward/

yikes

I think it's no so much that the commenters are defending Ward, as defending someone who has been 'abused'.

They're seeing abuse as a special crime -- just as some people see rape as special crime -- worse than any other crime, justifying anything its victim may subsequently do, and meriting the harshest penalty possible. The problem is that the idea of a 'special crime' trivialises other crimes, and seems to foster a desire for revenge over justice.

Going back to Ward, what particularly squicks me -- and I appreciate that everyone's mileage varies -- is seeing fanfic that pairs him with Skye. It doesn't usually bother me what direction writers decide to take a TV series in -- I'm a very passive viewer -- but I'm really, really hoping they don't use the 'anger turns into passionate love' cliché to bring Skye and Ward together.

That ship becoming canon would make me rather angry.

There was a time where it wouldn't have bothered me if they'd done SkyeWard - I didn't care enough about either character to have any feelings on it one way or the other. But now SkyeWard squicks the hell out of me. Ward is just so creepy and fixated where she's concerned. Run away Skye!! Don't look back.

Yeah I very rarely get squicked out by parings and had it been done before the HYDRA reveal I wouldn't have had an issue with it, but now? If they do that I am noping out so hard.

I mean the ones who say that he's just a poor abused boy and his actions were understandable.

I think something can be understandable and still not excusable though.

To go back to Anakin -- I totally understand why he slaughtered the Jedi in Episode III (even the kids). He'd just unwittingly made himself complicit in Mace Windu's murder, had no other option to save his wife, and (most importantly) told himself he was ending the Clone War and bringing peace to the Republic. I can totally understand how he could rationalize it to himself that murdering and betraying a couple thousand Jedi would be "worth it" and the right thing to do in that scenario.

Doesn't make his murder of innocent children less horrific. But it's still understandable to me from a character perspective. I'd toss his ass in jail, though. I'm anti-death penalty so that's not really on the table.

With Ward, I can see how being abused could definitely set him on the path he walks. And that might make his actions understandable. But he still chose to walk that path so I don't really see how that makes his actions less evil or him less responsible for choosing to act the way he did.

Thing with Ward is, though, he had options to stop. Even if you argue that following Garret at first was essential to his survival, and that he was young and being groomed by him... he was undercover with SHIELD long enough to be considered a friend, an ally.

He still chose to kill Victoria Hand. He still chose to attempt to kill Fitz-Simmons, leading to Fitz's brain injury. Even in jail, he basically tells Sky Hydra is better than SHIELD because they're more ruthless and have less compassion. I'm paraphrasing, but that's the spirit of it. He doesn't even regret the shit he did, and rationalizes it in his mind still.

I guess what I'm asking is, are you annoyed with people finding what he did understandable? Or are you annoyed at people who pretend like his actions are excused by his backstory? Or both?

Because I think there's a big distinction there.

I don't mind if someone sees Ward's actions as understandable (given his past) and wants him to admit to his wrongdoing and try to redeem himself. They're acknowledging that he's done evil and needs to face the consequences of his actions.

Where I get annoyed (and I'm guessing this is true with you as well) is when people act as though he literally had no choice and that he's not morally bound by his actions because of his tragic backstory. That's what I find BS. Ward may have been influenced, but he still had free will. Bucky Barnes he was not.

Both, a bit?

It definitely is not excusable for me, I think we agree there. And understandable, well that only goes so far. In the sense that he could have made other choices. That other people very actively make those choices not to become as bad, or even worse, as their abusers were.

I understand cause and effect, and that his past might have lead to his actions, but actually I suspect he might have been not quite right even before the abuse, which for the record is still alleged at this point, but let's assume it's true.

What I mean it's not like it's inevitable destiny. To me, it's an explanation, but an excuse.

he was trying to warn skye

Because he seems to have a fixation on her, not out of the kindness of his heart.

he still wasn't praising hydra, he was warning skye that she would need to be as ruthless as them if she wanted to win.

He also threatened to rape her at one point.

[citation needed]

Sure thing, chief:

“You’re right Skye, you woke up a weakness inside me. And for the first time in a while I wanted something for myself. Maybe I’ll just take what I want, wake up something inside you.”

You're welcome.

Given that Garret abandoned Ward long enough for Ward to both learn how to build a cabin and actually build himself one, I'd say Ward had had plenty of time to think about Garret's possible motives. Especially since Garret then made him kill his dog (unless that's been retconned, I'm not sure on that one). Everything he did after then was of his own free will. He was a fucking adult, and capable of making his own choices.

brett dalton said he didn't kill the dog

Of course, whether or not he was actually abused is at this point in question - given everything we've seen of Ward, his brother's claim that he's a pathological liar who's rewritten his own abusive actions to be someone else's fault is pretty damn plausible.

Except we saw an actual flAshback in the well

Could've been Ward's imagination not just a flashback- after all they made us think Simmons was still around for ep 1 s2 before we realised it was a hallucination.

that's really stretching it

Re: OP here

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-08 04:09 (UTC) - Expand

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