[ SECRET POST #2867 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2867 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 088 secrets from Secret Submission Post #410.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

"And the Harrison fight didn't show his reaction at all. He's shown calmly looking out the window when she leaves but that's it. They show Kirk's worried face a few times, but NEVER Spock"

Not wanna ruin you shippy rant here but this is not true?
There are two moments where they show his face and he looks worried to me. One of the shoots was even used in the Harrison viral video for him to point up his vulnerability how could you miss it? It seems you are just purposely ignoring all the scenes where Spock shows emotion for people who aren't Kirk and this Spock fan here finds it annoying. You think he was cool when Pike died too or when Bones was in danger? Or when his mother died, since he didn't cry and scream. If you don't see his reaction there it then explains the rest of your comment.

And didn't Spock go to Uhura when Marcus said he was about to kill the whole enterprise?
I remember Spock looking at her and moving from his station to where she stood in the room just to protectively be close to her when he thought they were about to die. It's in the novel even and he holds her hand. I guess your focus was on Kirk only in that scene too?
Also him looking at her as to ask her permission to go after Khan because he knows now how she feels when he puts himself in danger.
In that movie he DID tell her he lives her, basically. Doesn't need a mariachi band to show it.

Also sorry but even in the scene with khan in the end you really don't think that his GF being in danger too further made him lose his mind? Don't you see his face when he saw her there and khan was getting close to her? How he frantically tried to find something to use against Khan?

I don't get why k/s fans have to pretend that these characters don't care about others just to prop your ship as the most important thing. It isn't even realistic for the characters and makes it seems you don't care about Spock when he doesn't interact with Kirk, tbh.

[(Anonymous)]

Errr…No. As she's walking up to them as she leaves the ship, they show Spock (first when he tells Kirk that he doesn't want to face her wrath then later when he turns backs to look out the window) but once she starts talking to them he is NEVER shown. Even when the Klingon freaking grabs her face.

Look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0cFLb-JmaQ

And Spock certainly did freak the fuck out about his mother. You recall when he had Kirk (his first officer) thrown off the ship onto an icy wasteland right? That's a pretty big overreaction and McCoy called him on it.

And Spock standing next to her is hardly what I'd call intimate, to be honest.

And again, maybe they held hands in the novel, but the writers and filmmakers couldn't even be bothered to show it. They just didn't care.

Also, one of the reasons I don't think he was concerned about Uhura when he was beating up Khan was because he DIDN'T freaking LISTEN to her. If he was so concerned about her, then why didn't he give a shit about what she was saying until she magically said "save Kirk"?

I don't think that Spock ONLY loves Kirk or that his love for Kirk is better or more important than his feelings of friendship or his love for his parents. But I don't think the relationship with Uhura reads as a healthy one nor is it particularly realistic or believable to me. I don't see him as in love with her and I struggle to see why she's in love with him given that he acts like such a jackass in the first film.

And honestly? When Spock interacts with Kirk (at least in Star Trek Into Darkness, not the 2009 film) that's when he's at his very BEST.

That's just my opinion though.

[(Anonymous)]

I have the DVD with the deleted scenes and it's interesting because in the original scene on kronos there is a moment where the klingons want to kill Kirk and you know what? Spock has no reaction. Uhura is the one getting emotional and screaming because she doesn't want Kirk to die.
The scene is not canon but I bring it here because clearly it shows that JJ directed Spock as controlled there, in contrast with Uhura and Kirk.


But I don't think the relationship with Uhura reads as a healthy one nor is it particularly realistic or believable to me. I don't see him as in love with her and I struggle to see why she's in love with him given that he acts like such a jackass in the first film.

You realize that the same could be said about Kirk/Spock?
Yet, you want Kirk to be with someone (be it friendship or romance it doesn't really matter) that is awful with him and had even tried to kill him. Wtf?!
When was their friendship realistic or well written or healthy? Why should they be friends??
You are writing yourself into a hole here.

[(Anonymous)]

And guess what? That's on the deleted scenes. And given that it contradicts what's onscreen, it's obviously not canon. The filmmakers put in the final film what they think is important and how they want to depict the characters. There was also a scene in the 2009 movie of Kirk apologizing to the "wrong" Gaila that was mercifully cut because JJ finally realized how much of a tool it made Kirk look.

And of course the same could be said about Kirk/Spock. The same could be said about ANY fictional couple. Because it's a SUBJECTIVE analysis. It's my OPINION. It's what I see when I look at the screen. If someone sees something different GOOD FOR THEM. But that's not what I see.

I agree that Spock trying to kill Kirk was fucked up -- Spock himself was fucked up at the time though. And, more importantly, he's developed and gotten better since then. Would I want them together after the 2009 film? NO. Because that would be hugely unhealthy. Spock is, in my opinion, not ready to be with ANYONE in that film given how he behaves towards those around him. At the end of STID, though? Sure.

Their relationship was healthy by the end of STID in that they helped each other make better choices -- look at how Kirk listened to Spock about not killing Harrison. Or Spock finally admitting that he can't choose not feel (which a really unhealthy standard to set for oneself, especially a traumatized person) because Kirk got him to realize what sacrificing for friends means and that the emotions that surround that are okay. First, early in the film when he saves Spock then later when he sacrifices his life for the crew.

If you disagree with me feel free to. But I'm entitled to my opinion. And so are you.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think they cut that part b/c they thought it made k/s look bad as much as I think they cut it because they anticipated the scene where Khan showed up and saved Kirk.

"And given that it contradicts what's onscreen, it's obviously not canon. "

Spock is all business-like in the scene when Kirk and Khan space jump from the Enterprise to the Vengeance too. His captain risks to miss the ship and die in the vacuum of outer space (or worse hit the ship and die from the impact) but he's cool. In fact, McCoy himself sarcastically points up that Spock is too cold and Kirk even comments on his bedside manners because of his flat tone when telling him he had no chance to make it to the ship.

The deleted scene didn't contradict anything because before the death scene Spock had been his Spock self for most of the movie and never gets so emotional.
It's a valid point, so, that the deleted scene shows that Spock wasn't controlled only about Uhura being in danger there but Kirk too. It's consistent with the character: he doesn't show his feelings so much and most of the time he's controlled. Doesn't mean he doesn't care, he's just more subtle than Kirk and Uhura.

You seem to believe that he must have the same reaction Kirk has for his concern for Uhura to matter and I disagree. I can't look at his eyes in that scene and think he's happy that his girlfriend is in danger. It's stupid. Maybe I'm giving too much credit to Zachary Quinto, IDK, but really.


And Spock standing next to her is hardly what I'd call intimate, to be honest.

it doesn't matter if it's intimate for you, whatever that means for you. The point is that in a dramatic moment when they were about to die (or so they believe), his first concern is for his woman and it's her that he wants to be close to and he doesn't want her to die alone.
You say that Spock didn't care for Uhura but you're turning a blind eye to moments (even in the video) that contradict that just because Spock is not a human like Kirk and he cannot be over the top about his feelings all the time because it makes no sense for his character.

[(Anonymous)]

As for deleted scenes -- they aren't in the film so, unfortunately, they can't be judged in the context of the film. The filmmakers clearly thought them contradictory/unimportant so I can't include them. We have no idea how they would be intercut in the film and what would be different if they were included. It's also an alternative take of a scene (instead of one that was removed for running time) which means it's obviously going to contradict aspects in the final film.

"Spock is all business-like in the scene when Kirk and Khan space jump from the Enterprise to the Vengeance too."

No he isn't. He follows Kirk and is passionate. Note how he GRABS Kirk's shoulder (physical contact is a HUGE deal for Vulcans) and states "I cannot allow you to do this!" with real emotion in his voice. It isn't until Kirk confesses that he has no idea what he's supposed to do and that the ship needs Spock more than him in the chair that Spock lets him go.

And, ummm…of course it matters if it's intimate to me or not. It's how I see the movie that matters TO ME. He goes and stands next to her. So? Why should I consider that more intimate than, say, when he grabs Kirk's shoulder right before Kirk goes to make the jump?

As for Spock not being human -- it's well established that he frequently loses his cool when the people he loves are in danger. In TOS, he freaks out when Kirk confronts the Horta and after Jim comes back in Amok Time. In the new films, he freaks out for his mother and Kirk. That's pretty consistent.

I don't think I'm asking for much to see some kind of strong reaction from him when his girlfriend is in danger.

I didn't say he was happy. He doesn't look happy. But he looks much more unfazed and in control of himself compared to when his mother or Kirk was in danger/hurt.

If you are satisfied with that or interpret it differently, then good for you. I am not. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[(Anonymous)]

That you are a spirk fan is obvious, but you're taking this petty shipper war too seriously now. Your ranting all over the thread just reads like a defensive shipper seeking validation.
It's really sad that trek is now reduced to a competition between Kirk and Uhura for the prize of Spock's affection. Feels like kindergarten.

You were supposed to be better star trek fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

Um…okay?

I'm just stating my opinion, dude. I've said it again and again that I don't demand anyone to agree with me and that everyone's entitled to their own opinion and to interpret the films how they see fit. It's great that people can get different things out of film.

We disagree on the writing -- you like Spock/Uhura and dislike the Kirk and Spock friendship while I'm the opposite. And that's fine. You don't need to be "wrong" for me to be "right" and I don't need to be "wrong" for you to be "right." It's a film -- a piece of art -- which means our interpretation of it is subjective.

I don't see why discussing how I interpret the films and the aspects I like and don't like about it is "petty." But if that's what you believe then go ahead.

I haven't called you names or attacked your character or made suggestions about your motivations or insulted you so I truly don't understand why you feel as though I'm doing something "wrong" for writing out my opinion.

Spock, Uhura, and Kirk aren't real and I think it's perfectly fair game to discuss where the writing worked and where it fell short for me.