[ SECRET POST #2869 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2869 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 061 secrets from Secret Submission Post #410.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

She lied because she had a crush on a specific person, allowing him to think his wife was dead and thus spiral further into madness and begin all of the events that happened. All because she wanted him. And then, the moment he was in danger, she was willing to kill the kid she supposedly wanted and told she would never let anyone hurt.

That's pretty fucking selfish.

Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with you that she's a horrible person. That being said, it bugs me that people say she's the worst characters. Because no. Third worst, but not the worst. Actually murdering lots of innocent people is worse. Raping an innocent woman and planning on raping her daughter is worse.

Re: Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, no, I get that. I just wish people would stop making her out to be the poor, poor pitiful woman who ~just wanted a family~.

No, the pies thing was her idea, she encouraged him, etc.

Re: Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but don't forget that Lovett is cheerfully complicit in the murders of all those innocent people, and she doesn't have the dubious excuse of being unhinged by grief and injustice. She's as amoral as they come.

Re: Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

I absolutely agree with that. She is a horrible person. It is just that a lot of people say she's the worst person in the musical (sometimes in ways that strike me as somewhat sexist). I still think she's the third worst and a horrible person, but Todd and the Judge are both worse than her.

Re: Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

I tend to think that neither she nor Todd separately would have been as terrible as they became together.

And I say this as someone who's spent a semester's worth of voice lessons preparing her songs and who's longing to do "A Little Priest" if I can only convince one of the baritones in the studio to do it with me.

Re: Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

I agree to this.

Re: Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

Rape is not worse than murder, dammit. That is SUCH a fucking creepy attitude.

Re: Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, the implication that a rape victim would be better off dead is really unnerving.

Re: Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

Objectively, no, but let's have some context here. Turpin has Benjamin Barker convicted for crimes he didn't commit and transported specifically to clear the way for him to rape Lucy Barker. Then, after she poisons herself and is committed to Bedlam, he takes in her infant daughter, and raises her in isolation, grooming her to be his wife. I think there is a decent argument to be made here that it takes a more evil individual to willfully construct that kind of misery than to slit a throat, and that is not the same as saying that rape is worse than murder.

However, and to bring this back on topic, Mrs. Lovett is an amoral sociopath who chooses to use all this horror to her advantage and egg Sweeney Todd on his killing spree for fun, profit, and the chance to pretend that her insane, grieving crush is her for-real boyfriend, and manages to completely fuck up at least one innocent (Toby) in the process. It's a bit of a stretch to say she's any less evil than Turpin or Todd.

Basically, Sweeney Todd is about horrible people in horrible circumstances doing horrible things to one another and singing. Also, Joanna/Anthony.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm curious how much of a difference it would have made if Sweeney knew Lucy was still alive. He wouldn't still want revenge on Judge Turpin for raping Lucy, destroying her mind, and keeping their daughter?

[(Anonymous)]

That's a reasonable question, but given the opportunity, he might have been just as obsessive about rescuing Lucy from the streets and possibly even finding a cure for her.

[(Anonymous)]

he became as brutal a killer because he thought she'd died as a result of the rape, IIRC. So I doubt he'd become as bad. Revenge on Turpin is one thing.

killing innocent people who had nothing to do with it is another.

[(Anonymous)]

Lovett told Sweeney that Lucy had taken poison, conveniently omitting to mention that she didn't die.

[(Anonymous)]

Yea, but the implication was that she did die. And she certainly did nothing to change his mind because it meant she could have him.

[(Anonymous)]

I'do the same for the guy I want, fuck other women, I want what makes me happy.

[(Anonymous)]

At least you're open about your sociopathy.

[(Anonymous)]

So you would ruin another person's happiness just because you like a guy, even if he doesn't return your feelings (he didn't return hers).

[(Anonymous)]

Presume you're trolling, but if not - you did notice what happened to Mrs. Lovett at the end? Not so much with the happily ever after. I guess enjoy it while it lasts, because it's all gonna end in tears.

[(Anonymous)]

if anthony hadn't interrupted sweeney before he could cut turpin's throat the first time, he probably wouldn't have killed anyone else

[ceebeegee]

Not to mention that, at least in the movie (wasn't sure how it played out in the stage version), she decides to either kill Toby or have him killed when she realizes that he's figured out Todd. My jaw dropped when I saw that tear--her ONE redeeming quality, her love for Toby, and she's throwing it away.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh that happens in the play, too.

[(Anonymous)]

In the movie she's more upset over it.

[(Anonymous)]

Probably because he's a little boy, tbh. (in the movie, as opposed to on stage.)