fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2869 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2869 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 061 secrets from Secret Submission Post #410.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

11. http://i.imgur.com/aDWKOPV.png

She lied because she had a crush on a specific person, allowing him to think his wife was dead and thus spiral further into madness and begin all of the events that happened. All because she wanted him. And then, the moment he was in danger, she was willing to kill the kid she supposedly wanted and told she would never let anyone hurt.

That's pretty fucking selfish.

I agree with you that she's a horrible person. That being said, it bugs me that people say she's the worst characters. Because no. Third worst, but not the worst. Actually murdering lots of innocent people is worse. Raping an innocent woman and planning on raping her daughter is worse.

Oh, no, I get that. I just wish people would stop making her out to be the poor, poor pitiful woman who ~just wanted a family~.

No, the pies thing was her idea, she encouraged him, etc.

Yeah, but don't forget that Lovett is cheerfully complicit in the murders of all those innocent people, and she doesn't have the dubious excuse of being unhinged by grief and injustice. She's as amoral as they come.

Re: Not OP

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 03:11 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 03:24 (UTC) - Expand

I agree to this.

Rape is not worse than murder, dammit. That is SUCH a fucking creepy attitude.

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 22:22 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 22:46 (UTC) - Expand

I'm curious how much of a difference it would have made if Sweeney knew Lucy was still alive. He wouldn't still want revenge on Judge Turpin for raping Lucy, destroying her mind, and keeping their daughter?

That's a reasonable question, but given the opportunity, he might have been just as obsessive about rescuing Lucy from the streets and possibly even finding a cure for her.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 03:26 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 03:50 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 03:59 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 04:15 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 04:25 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 07:01 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 07:02 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 04:56 (UTC) - Expand

Not to mention that, at least in the movie (wasn't sure how it played out in the stage version), she decides to either kill Toby or have him killed when she realizes that he's figured out Todd. My jaw dropped when I saw that tear--her ONE redeeming quality, her love for Toby, and she's throwing it away.

Oh that happens in the play, too.

In the movie she's more upset over it.

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-12 18:56 (UTC) - Expand

Oh God. That still is so over-the-top Tim Burtony I'm actually getting second-hand embarrassment for everyone involved.

What are you even talking about? You realize it was a play and muscial long before Tim Burton made that version of it right?

And it had similar aesthetics, from what I've seen.

evewithanapple - 2014-11-11 03:19 (UTC) - Expand

Yes, I know that, and I love the play. But just look at that frame -- Jesus. It's like a caricature of every Burton cliche ever, topped off with Johnny Depp making his "I'm a Goffic character in a Tim Burton movie" face and Helena Bonham Carter cosplaying the Corpse Bride.

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 07:04 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 03:14 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 03:28 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-11 03:42 (UTC) - Expand

LOL. I get what you mean. It is second hand embarrassment inducing.

This movie was when I officially lost any of the respect I'd ever had for Burton and Depp tbh.

She is pathetic, but she's also kind of evil. You can feel sorry for her and condemn the things she did.

She is evil. I don't think it's an accident that when Angela Lansbury created the role, Lovett had her hair up in those two little buns that look like horns.

...so, everyone on this secret is just talking entirely around the fact that SHE SERVED PEOPLE AS FOOD.

Like, oh no, rape, oh no, lies, but was it ethical, but what about her precious feelings, and isn't lying justified sometimes, and SHE FUCKING SERVED FUCKING PEOPLE AS FUCKING FOOD WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK THERE ARE NO OTHER ISSUES IN THIS CONVERSATION JESUS H. CHRIST.

Well, they're easier to catch than cats.

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-12 00:45 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah, murder is murder, but serving up human flesh for the unwitting to dine on is just a special category of transgression. At the same time, though, Todd does point out that the air is full of the crunching of man devouring man; he and Lovett just do it a little more literally.

I don't think she wanted a family, precisely, except insofar as a family was one of that trappings of what she really wanted--a respectable middle-class existence. Two point five kids, a parlor organ, and a summer cottage at a seaside resort, no matter who she had to step on to get there. Did she love Todd? Only in the way she understands love: "I'd be twice the wife she was." Angel of the house indeed.

She plays much the same role for Todd that the Beadle does for Judge Turpin: a remorseless, sociopathic enabler who gives a well-placed nudge towards the truly horrific whenever the person who's doing her dirty work risks having an inconvenient crisis of conscience. And she sees nothing wrong with any of it.

(I'm more familiar with the play than the movie, but you could probably make a case for that first paragraph based on the visual contrast of the "By the Sea" sequence alone--Lovett's ideal fantasyland is the Burton-Victorian remix of the technicolor suburb from Edward Scissorhands. Todd's happiness and desires are completely irrelevant to her as long as he's there playing his part.)

This analysis is beautiful, really. I just sang "By the Sea" for voice seminar and this is everything I wish I could have said when my teacher asked me to tell the class what this song is about--it's not in there just for fun. It says a world of things about Lovett's amorality and her banal, completely self-centered, middle-class aspirations.