[ SECRET POST #352 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #352 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 250 secrets from Secret Submission Post #051.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 2 3 ] too big, [ 1 ] hate letter.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Monday, December 24th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

10) I love Locke/Celes. I've seen people try to deny that it's canon, but wtf?

Still, I'm even more of an ~*~FF outcast~*~ in that Squall/Rinoa is my favorite "main" FF pairing, and about 85% of the fandom refuses to acknowledge that it exists because omg evil Mary Sue pastede-on anyone who likes it is in denial blargh blargh

lulz @ 12 & 13 being right next to each other.

19) wtf is with people refusing to watch shows because they don't think they'll like the fandom. Some of my favorite canons, I barely even look at fandom.

22) Because, you know. God forbid people care about anything in real life. Sorry, but those issues are there. It's one thing to insist on ranting about politics whenever someone wants to enjoy an anime, and that's not fair, sure. But people who get mad when someone brings up the sociopolitical dimensions of fiction because OMG IT'S JUST FANDOM need to step back and take a look at the world. Lots of things are influenced by fiction, including, most importantly, the minds and hearts of people. It's more than fair to look at the politics and issues behind fiction--it's sometimes necessary.

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

22. Discussing the social complexities and political dimmensions of fiction is well and good, sometimes it's fun. But some people take it too far and act like anyone who doesn't is an ignorant feeb.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

The secret doesn't say "I hate when people won't shut up about the sociopolitical/feminist issues of fandom," though; it says that the OP hates when people bring those issues into fandom, period.

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Hmm...well, then either they're being as bossy as the people who insist fandom MUST constantly yammer on about this stuff, or they made a frustrated generalization.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

I admit I don't have much sympathy for people who make such obvious generalizations on fandomsecrets, frustrated or not. Some of the things the comm picks on seem kind of silly, but when it comes to the blatant generalizations (like this one)? If they've been watching the comm for more than a day, it should be obvious how annoying it is when people submit secrets with angry generalizations--and, in turn, the way the comm responds. I know that when I submit secrets, I'm careful not to say something like that.

(Also...I never said that fandom "MUST constantly yammer on about this stuff," just that some people in fandom really ought to sometimes. Big difference.)

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

This is true. While I don't think people should have to proofread and edit their every opinion, they should at least STATE that it's an opinion or "it feels like, to me" to cover their asses. Least I think so.

(Well, I wasn't saying YOU did. :P)

[loveotter.livejournal.com]

22. So no one ever should, and those who do are somehow ruining it for those who "just want to have fun"? If you want fluffy discussions, that's perfectly fine, and there are plenty of places where that happens. But who is the OP to tell anyone who wants to dig a little deeper into the fiction and look at the influences behind a piece to stfu because it's "just fandom"?

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Well, no. But like I said, some people take it too far. This is a prime example. (http://wiki.fandomwank.com/index.php/But_what_are_your_thoughts_on_yaoi%3F)

[loveotter.livejournal.com]

Some people take it too far.

True enough.

[cephiedvariable.livejournal.com]

10. in that Squall/Rinoa is my favorite "main" FF pairing, and about 85% of the fandom refuses to acknowledge that it exists because omg evil Mary Sue pastede-on anyone who likes it is in denial blargh blargh

slkdjslaj y'know, the fact that you and so many other cool people on my flist ship Squall/Rinoa really makes me wish that I didn't hate Rinoa so much. Like, for serious I want to go replay VIII enough times that I start not wanting to punch her in the face. T___T I would too, if I could find my copy.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

I admit that I understand how people could find her annoying, because y'know, she is. I think she's supposed to be; I think everyone in that game is supposed to be at least a little bit dysfunctional. But I don't really understand the profound vitriolic hate fandom seems to have for her. o_o

I find that it helps me like all the characters, not just Rinoa, if I go through the game thinking that they're not supposed to represent cool tough heroes but rather screwed-up kids. Rinoa isn't supposed to be some kind of angel from on high, but rather a flighty, spoiled, bratty girl who genuinely wants to help people and the world but often gets caught up in her own self-centeredness instead--and who in her dysfunction matches up to Squall's dysfunction in a weirdly co-dependent-yet-just-right Thing that helps them both out.

But, y'know. I accept that not everyone likes it, I just wish the profound haet would die down somewhat.

[cephiedvariable.livejournal.com]

I agree with you completely on your analysis of the characters in FFVIII. I'm not fond of most of them, true, but that really has more to do with the way character development was communicated in the game- I appreciate them all as characters, but I cared more about the people who WEREN'T in my party than the people who were (except for Squall, he is easily the most elegantly developed protagonist in Final Fantasy). It's a personal preference thing on my part. I always cite FFVIII as my least favorite (which isn't completely true now that I've played them all :P), but in all honestly I'm glad it was exactly the way it was because it was a bold experiment that paved the way for a new method of story-telling I wish they hadn't ditched in XII that made IX and X also so brilliant.

TL;DR, my point is I really have no clue why I hate Rinoa so much because I understand that most of what's annoying about her are intentional and realistic flaws and usually the kind of characters who get on my nerves are the ones who's flaws are completely UNINTENTIONAL and full of, y'know, the author's issues showing or whatever. Rinoa certainly has her moments (like in your avatar, which is simply the most adorable thing in the Universe XDDD), but in the end I... I don't even know. :P

I do appreciate her and Squall's romance, though. Not necessarily the kind of relationship that appeals to me, but it was kind of the point of the game, so like, yeah, I too cannot stand the way so many people dump on it. FFVIII fandom almost annoys me more than FFVII fandom. VII's might be a great deal larger and more batshit, but VIII's is full of exactly the kind of slash fan that drives. Me. Nuts.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

idk what to suggest--maybe read some recced fanfic about Rinoa or other FFVIII characters you want to appreciate more? That can help sometimes. Of course, it's up to you if you want to--I don't really care if people dislike a character I like, so long as they're reasonable about it. Which you're totally being. *shrug* I dunno, sometimes we just don't like someone. Lord knows there are characters like that for me, especially in TV and comics.

Ahahaha, one of the people who introduced me to FFVIII was a batshit crazy Seifer/Squall fan who insisted that they had soooo much chemistry (just look at that torture scene! ^_^) and it was so hot and I would haaaate Rinoa. But then, uh, by that point I didn't get along with her too well and I was kind of glad to disagree. XD

Also, as much as I like Squall/Rinoa, Locke/Celes is way up there too. (You can't hide it, I know that's your secret. ♥)

[cephiedvariable.livejournal.com]

WUT. MY SECRETS ARE NEVER OBVIOUS. IT'S NOT LIKE I USE THE SAME TWO FONTS ALL THE TIME. XDDDD

Eh, I'm not really looking for suggestions. I just like tl;dr? Although talking fandom opinions out with other people tends to often give me perspective. My roomate is slowly making me appreciate FFXII, and my Shakespeare professor turned me into a blithering fangirl when once I was a naysayer.

Ha ha ha, batshit Seifer/Squall fans. *head desk* Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that pairing- I can see it, certainly, in the first two discs at least. I was more turned off by the way it was THE COOLEST THING EVER to pair up every pretty male with every other pretty male, oh Bishies lol lol and completely ignore the female characters because, hey, a large portion of the fandom hadn't even PLAYED the game, just read those "a yaoi fan's guide to..." write ups about it. I know that's actually a fairly common fad in video game fandom, but I never witnessed it in anything else to the extent that it was done with FFVIII. Also, I was like, twelve and really confused as to why all these 20 year old women were incapable of a game I found easy as pie.

[cdaae.livejournal.com]

Totally agreeing with you on 22. And 19 for that matter.

[fuyu]

10. Ahahaha, I apologize for being slightly one of those fans :D; Though I really don't hate Rinoa, I think she's cute. And I don't think fans of it are in denial, what the heck? People say that? O_o It's obviously canon...

22. Word. Oh my god, word. *fandom feminist*

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

10. I don't mind people not liking Squall/Rinoa--even I don't think it was perfectly developed, although I kind of go "buh?" when people insist it had no development at all. I just boggle at how rabid fandom gets about the haet, and how it usually involves bashing Rinoa in particular. -_- I know from other comments of yours that that's not your tack, though, so while I disagree with your take on it, I don't get all rarrrgh about it.

I get the impression from a lot of bashers that fans are clearly only liking it because of some mystic pull to main pairings and are totally in denial about how horrible it really is. >_< Although I've also seen people claim that Rinoa someone tricked Squall into loving her with her Sorceress powers, blargh.

22. e_e Thank you for being willing to call yourself a feminist. I am so sick of the negative connotation the word seems to have acquired in fandom. >:/

[fuyu]

10. What. What. There was plenty of development. What? XD Geez.

... I actually like that idea, myself (just because for my view it reconciles the themes that disturb me and also offers a way to fairly painlessly untangle them) but... it's a what-if for me. Are people actually CLAIMING that as something that happened? O_o

22. So am I, believe me. =_= It sucks. Feminism is not an evil gaping toothed vagina waiting to EAT ALL MEN or whatever - and if it is you're doing it wrong.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

10. I would have liked to have seen more development, and I think more people would have liked it if the game had given us more examples of the ways Squall and Rinoa were good for each other and how they fell for each other through those ways; as it was, you sort of have to coax that stuff out of the text. Now I don't mind that coaxing, because there are several things in the text that really appeal to me about the relationship: the way they have complementary views of time (Squall is constantly obsessing about the future, practically to the point of giving himself a nervous breakdown; Rinoa is flighty and lost in the present) that are dysfunctional on their own but actually work together; the way they find comfort and connection in each other; the way Squall is finally able to unburden himself to her. But, y'know, I shouldn't have to dig for more support.

...I, uh. Sorry for rambling. I just like to try to explain my reasons for shipping unpopular pairings sometimes, because a lot of the times fans are just like "omg teh h8 ;_; *retreats into safe fandom place*" and they remain strange alien things to those who don't like the pairing. If that makes any sense.

(And while I haven't seen anyone claiming that it was actually canonically intended to be what happened, I've seen them claim that it's the only way to explain Squall falling for Rinoa.)

22. Truth. >_< I'm working on an idea for making a community to discuss gender issues/female characters, as well as try to reclaim female characters treated badly by either their canon, their fandom, or both, but I'm partly not sure how fandom would take it and partly...unable to think of a name.

[miss-arel.livejournal.com]

*coughs, sidles into the conversation* Well, a couple of my friends did make a community something like that a while back: backward_heels is a place to discuss and appreciate women in fiction, and I think it'd be a good forum for the kinds of discussions you seem interested in (and as another fandom feminist, I know I'm interested in them too!).

Of course, if you do start your own comm, I'd love to know about it!

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Really? I looked and looked for something like that, but couldn't find it. More communities need to set up appropriate interests. D:

Re: 10

[auraunda.livejournal.com]

I think I love you XD

Ignore the implication in the icon >.>