[ SECRET POST #2893 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2893 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 012 secrets from Secret Submission Post #413.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

you're saying that your fun is more important than someone's identity

a fictional character's identity in fanfiction (not even the actual source material. just fanfic. you know, that place where characters routinely get dog dicks and get dudes pregnant). get over yourself

[(Anonymous)]

Chill, lol.

[(Anonymous)]

k

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Dog dicks and Mpreg doesn't reflect something that's actually going on in reality though. They don't reflect the actual views of people who think homosexuality can be cured. They're fantasy. The idea that gays can be turned straight is, unfortunately, not.

[(Anonymous)]

Fictional characters are not real people. Your argument is ridiculous.

[(Anonymous)]

No, but the people on the other side of the screen/page who are identifying with them and seeing their own horrible real life experiences reflected back are. They're real, their experiences are real, and as such even a fictional depiction of it affects them in very real ways.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

So basically, your argument is that LGBT fans identify with characters who represent the LFBT experience in media in such a way and to such an extent - those characters are so meaningful to them - that creating fan works where those characters are in heterosexual relationships is harmful and just not the sort of thing one ought to do?

(this is a sincere question, I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from)

[(Anonymous)]

Basically, yes.

I literally can't understand why anyone would see the need to take what is already a minority representation that we see very little of (certainly very little in a positive light) and turn it into the majority representation, of which there is plenty of positive depiction in every single form of media you choose to see.

To take that rare positive representation and turn them straight... yeah, I'm actually finding it hard to fathom how you might not understand why people think that's a harmful thing to do, honestly.

[(Anonymous)]

Well for one thing - and I hate to harp on this - but writing fic where the gay character is straight does not, in fact, turn them straight or erase the representation. The representation is still there. It's still in the work. It hasn't changed. It's still just as much a positive depiction as it was before.

As to the question of why... well, I have no idea why. But that's kind of the point with fanfiction, isn't it? I have no idea what someone else might see in the work, what might interest them about it, what specific aspect of the character or their relationship might get someone interested. But the ability to play with all of those things is what makes fanfic interesting to me.

[(Anonymous)]

So fans of that show/character come online to engage with the fandom because they think finally here's something that won't just get thrown in my face. Finally here's something I can get behind that won't trigger dumbfuck ship wars or "it's not canoooon!" drama.

What they then see is people taking that character and turning them straight, despite canon actually giving them that representation, that positive image, that idea that THEY EXIST. But hey, not in the fandom they don't.

You don't think they'd be a teeeeeny bit aggrieved by that?

[(Anonymous)]

The problem with this 'not in the fandom they don't!' thing is that it implicitly equates "the existence of het fanfiction with that character" with "the nonexistence/lack of any gay fanfiction with that character".

It would be a problem if an entire fandom (or even most) up and decided to ignore a character's lack of straightness, but that's blatantly not the phenomenon being dealt with here (and if something like that happened, it would be a wayyy bigger issue than 'you're writing the wrong fanfics!').

[(Anonymous)]

most people don't write the gay characters as "turning straight" though, which I agree would be offensive. usually they're written as discovering that they're bisexual or rarely attracted to the opposite sex, which is something that happens in real life (I'm a lesbian and I have friends who have had this happen to them. bisexuality is as stigmatized practically as much as it is among straight people and a lot of lesbians that I know will view other women as "traitors" if they realize they aren't as gay as they thought and have a relationship with a man because they still think that you have to be either gay or straight). I think we're still at a point where showing something like that in the media would have unfortunate implications even if it does happen in real life, but in fanfiction it just doesn't really matter. people have all kinds of fantasies that they want fulfilled; it doesn't mean they want canon to reflect it

[(Anonymous)]

*stigmatized in certain parts of the LGBT community practically as much as it is among straight people

[(Anonymous)]

They don't reflect the actual views of people who think homosexuality can be cured.

neither does most fanfiction that involves shipping a gay character in a non-gay relationship, tho

[(Anonymous)]

But at its core that's what it does. It reinforces the idea that homosexuality is a choice and can be changed on a whim.

[(Anonymous)]

How does it do that? Seriously, how does it do that? I think that people are capable of writing a fanfic without thinking that the character would actually do that. If I write a fanfic where a gay character has a straight relationship, that doesn't mean that I think he is or could be straight, any more than I think a character is gay if I write a slash fic, or that I think a character is an angel working in a coffee shop if I write an AU. I honestly don't understand how writing fanfiction reinforces the idea that homosexuality is a choice or can be changed on a whim.

[(Anonymous)]

...you seriously don't get how writing something that turns a canonically gay character straight is reinforcing the harmful concept that homosexuality is just a quirk that can be 'fixed'?

Seriously? Wow.

[(Anonymous)]

I honestly, seriously, do not see how it reinforces that. I'm not lying to you.

Like, okay, yes, if we're talking about something where a canonically gay character wakes up one day and decides "Wow, being gay is awful! I love Jesus now and also am totally straight!" then yes, that would be shit.

But if we're talking about just, in general, writing something with a ship involving a gay character in a het relationship, then no, I don't think that reinforces the concept that homosexuality is just a quirk. Because I don't think it has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not the character is gay in canon. I can write that fic, I can read that fic, and still think the character is completely and totally gay in canon.

[(Anonymous)]

yes, because fanfiction has such a big influence against the gay agenda

in other news, having a dubcon kink means everything you touch will die and all your sandwiches will be stale

[(Anonymous)]

but really, is that big of a deal if some wish fulfillment fanfic isn't 100% kosher?

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, this does kind of make me wonder how they feel about all the other stuff in fanfic. do they think that people who write fic involving rape are pro-rape? or that people who write vore actually want to eat people? because obviously everything in fanfic must reflect a person's real life beliefs

[(Anonymous)]

i haven't ever seen commentary on vore fic (not that i've seen much vore fic in general) but mean, there are definitely people in fandom who find rape fic to be questionable? and rape survivors who talk about how skeevy they find rape fic to be?

[(Anonymous)]

NA

This is true but the fs consensus kind of seems to be that it's fine as long as you can separate fantasy from reality so that's kind of a strange argument to bring up here