fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2914 ]

[ SECRET POST #2914 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2914 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Eureka]

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[The Amazing Spider Man]

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[Masterchef Season 5]

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[American Horror Story: Murder House]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 017 secrets from Secret Submission Post #416.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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08. http://i.imgur.com/O4VcwpH.jpg

I think you're right? I mean I don't think CLAMP condones pedophilia.

You shouldn't think of CLAMP romances as regular romances, they have this soulmates thing going on. It's weird I know, but they are weird ladies.

Let's not forget they portrayed a romance between Seishirou and his mother, and kind of made it innocent and sweet too (although creepy). Don't think it means they support incest. It's just how those weird ladies roll.

agreed. Plus, it IS portrayed entirely innocent on page, people are just reading things into it.

I'm not familiar with this, but I assume adults were writing it. I mean, even if kids are their target audience, they presumably knew what sort of story they were writing.

It's from Card Captor Sakura, I think? Anyway, they get married or something?

IIRC, he gives her a promise ring and a "when you're older" agreement.

I suspect you're right. Kids media (and anime and manga in particular, especially older titles) are full of this kind of thing. To a 10 or 12 year old who probably feels they're totally mature and understand True Love, the relationship was probably just sweet and romantic.

i might be inclined to agree if it was written by a twelve year old, but CLAMP is made up of adults

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feotakahari - 2014-12-26 10:14 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah, the reaction to those two would probably have been waaaay different if it had cropped up in, say, Chobits, even though Chobits is far from innocent in the ways of portraying disturbing relationships and going "but it's True Love so it's okay".

Oh thank god I'm not the only person who got that vibe from Chobits. D8 That series gave me the meemies.

It's still fucking weird. I understand little kids get crushes on adults, but adult women thinking that it's cute or 'true love' that an adult reciprocates a 10-y/o's crush is gonna earn them well-deserved criticism for being kinda wacko about true love.

I think you may be right about CLAMP's intentions, but that relationship was totally fucked up (in the manga anyway). I mean, remember that time in the last graphic novel when Rika tells Sakura that she can't reveal who her boyfriend is because of his job, and then after Sakura leaves, Mr Terada appears from where he was hiding from Sakura so the school wouldn't find out that he had secretly become engaged to his 10 year old student?

Yeahhhhhhhhhh.

I remember seeing it as nothing more than a harmless little crush, but I only watched the anime so I don't know how differently it was done in the manga.

In the manga they're engaged. The ten year old is engaged to her adult teacher.

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Eeeeh, nah, it's still weird.

Anime version > manga version. Anime actually portrayed it as a cute onesided crush on a teacher.

Um, if you think about it the story being aimed at children almost makes it worse. Just as bad, at least. The reason? Because that turns it into a story that is essentially telling young girls that there is a situation where a teacher having a romantic relationship with them is acceptable. And that's fucked.

this is where the cultural difference comes in: western children's entertainment focuses on education and morals while japanese focuses more on wish fulfillment. simply put, western parents expect a random children's comic to tell their kids that stealing is wrong while japanese parents expect a random children's comic to show off a new set of pretty sparkly earrings. seeing that there has never been moral panic over the crazy amount of forbidden love in shoujo manga, the parents must be capable of discussing difficult topics with their children instead of trying to pretend they don't exist.

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But that's not the first time they have portrayed an adult/child relationship. There was one in Chobits, three in CCS (Touya/Kaho, Eriol/Kaho and Terada/Rika), one on X/1999 (Yuzuriha and that military guy) and that's pretty much how Kobato ended.

CLAMP seems to have a thing for the whole May/December romance.

Four, I think: Wasn't Sakura's dad the high school teacher of Sakura's mom? I definitely remember some sort of age difference / other inappropriate relationship between them.

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dahli - 2014-12-27 01:59 (UTC) - Expand

I'll make myself clearer.

Imagine three people who are reading a story. One is Amish, one is mainstream American, and one is Japanese. All three people come from cultures with widely different ideas about how often fiction should affect people's behavior. The Amish person would probably be reading a story that closely aligns with Amish morals. The American would have a wider choice of subject matter in their story, but might get judged for it pretty harshly, if others were aware of their reading preferences. The Japanese person could conceivably read almost ANYTHING and not have their morals or tastes questioned in the least.

TL;DR: The Japanese have a huge ideological gulf between reality and fiction. They don't think there is or should be any overlap.

Yeah, I really don't think so. Even in manga, you see that manga writers portray some people reacting strongly to stuff like fujoshi or fundashi so I don't believe at all that Japan is a place of wide open minds where everyone just gets that a book is a book and doesn't mean X Y out Z about its readers.

Re: I don't think OP is delusional...

(Anonymous) - 2014-12-27 02:02 (UTC) - Expand

Besides the fact that I'm not convinced by your characterisation of Japan's relationship with the media and morality,the main problem with what you're saying is that you're looking at this the wrong way.

No matter what a culture's attitude towards censorship is, that doesn't meant that the mass media it produces doesn't contain messages that are then consumed by its audience. Inevitably, some of those messages are going to be internalised by that audience. Not all of it, but some of it by some people some of the time.

You seem to be focused on what the rest of society might think about the morals of a person based on their reading/watching habits. Which is quite different to the issue of what a person's reading habits might do to their morals.

I... no. No, I can't do it. [puts on anon]

But then again, I had a pedophile in my family, who mostly attacked people below the age of nine. I think reading the Xanth books about nine-year-olds getting married off fucked me up enough, I really don't think I could've handled books like this.

I get the idea of it being a wish-fulfillment fantasy, but it's one I can't share, because it was never an option for me. I went through a phase of aggressively hitting on adult men at the age of eight or nine, but that's because it was a trauma response to being molested, not because it was an honest crush. I just thought that was what little girls were SUPPOSED to do, because that's what adult men wanted.

So yeah, sorry, mega-downer, but I just can't find it at all innocent or pleasant. Just a horrible reminder. If it works for you, go for it but yeah. Not me.

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