[ SECRET POST #2927 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2927 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Log Horizon]


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03.
[Red Dwarf / Stargate Atlantis]


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04.
[Sleepy Hollow]


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05.
[Disney / Doctor Who]


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06.
[Cinderella 2015]


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07.
[Daria / NCIS]


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08.
[Benedict Cumberbatch]


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09.
[Boku no Hero Academia]



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10.
[community]


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11.
[Young Avengers]


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12.
[Game of Thrones]


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13.
[PSYCHO-PASS/Katekyo Hitman REBORN!]


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14.
[Dragon Age]












Notes:

Full evening, so really early post!

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #418.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

12. http://i.imgur.com/bzfzqxG.jpg
[Game of Thrones]

[(Anonymous)]

*waits for fauxkaren*

[(Anonymous)]

She hasn't been around much in the past 3+ months.

[cloud_riven]

When was the last time you even saw her. You're going to be waiting a long time, dude.

*sits down and waits with you*

Let's be Hachiko together ;_____;

[(Anonymous)]

You be hachiko and I'll be Estragon

[(Anonymous)]

Hopefully she realized how useless she was and killed herself.

[diet_poison]

Fuck off.

[(Anonymous)]

"Creepy" is another word fandom has stripped of its meaning.

[(Anonymous)]

Catelyn is somewhat justified to an extent, in that she had no way of leaving the relationship with Ned, but that person is saying that all stepparents would be justified in treating their stepchildren like air at best and like a piece of crap at worst? What the fuck...

And yes, Catelyn still had no right to blame Jon for the sins of his father. It's not even about how a stepparent should act, it's how every decent human being should act.

Not to say Cetelyn's treatment of Jon disqualify her a decent human being. I think Catelyn is a complex and very strong character, but that doesn't make her a flawless bag of virtues, and I'm surprised that people would rather it did. If anything, it's her flaws that make her more human.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, so I don't follow GoT, but I do catch some snippets of the plot pretty much everywhere because some people seem to spoil it almost as a matter of principle.
And I was under the impression that the situation Sansa and Tyrion were in was, you know, absolutely not in the slightest possible way comparable to a marriage or other relationship in the common day of our world, as that post seems to be implying by comparing it to creepy entitled guys. Wasn't there like, a very serious threat of both of their lives if they didn't consumate that marriage, and was Tyrion not taking a really significant risk just for the sake of Sansa's happiness?
Or have I completely misunderstood that?

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know what you mean by "in the common day of our world", tbh. In most western, developed countries, forced marriage is not a big issue, yes. But it still happens, and it usually involves a very young girl and an older man for reasons other than love (obviously) or personal affinity.

In the books, neither Tyrion nor Sansa have a whole lot of choice in the matter, but of the two, Tyrion has more power. The way he saw it, they were stuck but they could maybe make the best of a really bad situation so he tries to be as kind to Sansa as possible under the circumstances. Sansa, on the other hand, rightfully has a huge distrust of ALL Lannisters by this point, Tyrion included since I think he's still suspected of trying to kill Bran. She also has a certain physical disgust of his deformities, and she isn't particularly diplomatic about it, either. Some Tyrion stans go on about how she should've been grateful, but I don't think that's really taking all the factors into consideration, including her age and experience.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt When I said our world, I really did rather mean the small western bubble that I , and I presume most people following US shows live in, so yes that was not broad enough of me.
Thanks for the explanation. Like I said, I don't follow the series so some of the finer points are often lost on me.

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't say that either of their lives were in serious jeopardy since they're both so usual as pawns in the game, but Tyrion was under a lot of pressure from his very powerful father (who isn't exactly fond of him) to consummate the marriage. So, yes, there was absolutely a degree of risk in not doing so.

As someone who loves Sansa and doesn't like Tyrion, I do think she should be grateful for how he treated her. That's not to say that she should be washing his feet and going down on him every night. In no way does she owe him sex. However, this guy who could have treated her like shit deliberately made his own life a lot harder out of respect for her in a world where no one respects women. I don't think it's out of line to say that she should be grateful for that because he went above and beyond the standards of the environment.

[(Anonymous)]

*both so useful as pawns

[(Anonymous)]

But isn't thinking less of her because of how she treats Jon - or at least realizing that her flawed behavior, be it her resentment towards him on the basis of it in her insecurity and jealousy re: his mother's relationship with Ned - kind of the point?

If she had been the perfect stepmother, then a huge chunk of the narrative couldn't have happened.

I could be wrong also, but I've always read an undercurrent that she's as aware as anyone that how she treats Jon is wrong, but all the things that led up to it are more important (and also contribute to how her own plotline goes later on).

I can't help but think this is a case of trying to apply decisions made based on what the narrative needs to a wider 'message' of some sort. It's not "Guide To How To Be A StepParent", it's a narrative structure based on an age-old literary device when it comes to the downtrodden stepchild's own story arc.

[herpymcderp]

Yeah, I kind of have to agree with this. It's not about maternal affection here, it's about maybe not being an unholy bitch to a little kid out of misplaced anger about his cheating daddy.

Catelyn is nearly the most one-note character in the entire series though. MUH FAMILY ad nauseum for a hundred pages.

[insanenoodlyguy]

And then, "Muh revenge"

[kallanda_lee]

Look, we seem to do this wank every few months, but here's the thing. Whatever you think of Cat, her situation is not comparable with a "stepparent" is the real world, as in most stepparents choose to be so. If my husband would drag home a baby from lord-known-where AFTER we got married, ou can be our ass I'd feel no obligation towards that kid whatsoever, and a lot of resentment towards my husband. In normal circumstance, I'd divorce, but that's not so much an option in that world.

So no, cat is not a saint, but she acts about how ou could expect from most people in that shitty situation.

[(Anonymous)]

jon was a child tho???? he wasnt responsible for his father's behaviour and it was incredibly immature and downright abusive for cat to take it out on him.

[diet_poison]

Ok...but the thing is that since Cat couldn't divorce, she was forced to interact with Jon. I assume that you would simply avoid interacting with the child in this situation, which is understandable. But while Cat had no obligation to go out of her way to be nice to Jon, she did have an obligation to be basically decent to him, not because he is her husband's bastard, but because he is an innocent child and not in any way at fault for what Ned did.

I can see both sides of this argument and I also get annoyed at the people who act like Cat should have been a saint to him and acted like nothing happened because Ned's infidelity isn't something she should have to just let go of (even if in her world that's kinda how it worked). But Jon is in no way a perpetrator of anything, it's Ned she should have been upset with - and instead she seemed to totally ignore it with him (in fact it seems they're one of the only couples in this series that truly loves each other) and take it out on Jon instead which imo is not the way to go.

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, but while I'd be angry as hell about my husband, taking it out on a baby (who also had no choice in the matter) is just awful. I understand why Cat is angry and feeling threatened (though all the people who insist Jon is a threat to her childrens' inheritance don't really have any solid evidence that this was anything more than a possibility vs. an actual threat) but it doesn't make her a great person to cut Jon off emotionally.

In fact, it's kind of a dumb idea if she was really concerned about her own children. If she'd raised Jon up and encouraged his loyalty to his step-family, that would minimize the threat far better than treating him like an interloper his entire life. But again, that's what makes Cat an interesting character... but not necessarily a good person in this respect.

[(Anonymous)]

Was Catelyn kind to Jon? No. And neither was she kind to Jeyne Poole or Beth Cassel or any of the other kids living at Winterfell who weren't hers. It wasn't Ned's infidelity she resented, nor Jon's existence: it was having him raised in their home and alongside their children. It was embarrassing to her and insulting to their other children. Catelyn might not have been a blameless saint but she still handled it better than most Westerosi noblewomen would have.

Transcript

[(Anonymous)]

Image: a screencap that looks like it came from Tumblr; it has the reblog bar on the left. The title reads “Cately & Jon: A Woman’s (Maternal) Feelings Are Not a Public Resource. The author’s name has been grayed out and the secret creator has typed BULLSHIT. in red letters.

Image text: There’s been wonderful meta lately about why Catelyn is not obligated to love Jon and why it’s unfair to attack her for it while assuming everyone else would be A-Ok. However, let’s address the downright creepiness of this insistence that Catelyn had a duty to love Jon as his stepmother, Ned’s wife, and all-around-nice mother to her own children.

In the same vein that no person is ever entitled to the romantic/sexual affection of another (*cough* gross people who say Sansa the 12-year-old should be more grateful Tyrion didn’t invoke his “right” to have sex with her *cough), no person is entitled to maternal affection from someone who 1 they are not related to and 2) didn’t have any say whatsoever in agreeing to raise.

Secret text: Meta that tries to apply feminism to GoT like this annoys the crap out of me. It’s not “creepy” to think less of Catelyn for not being a better stepmother to Jon, ffs.

She didn’t have to love him, but she had a duty not to blame an innocent kid for his father’s infidelity. This is about being a good step-parent. The same dumb tumblr “feminists” who tink it’s “gross” to think Sansa out to be grateful to Tyrion for his relatively benign treatment also think that somehow Catelyn deserves hugs for not outright abusing Jon. How is that not a double standard? I like Cat, but she wasn’t perfect and this is clearly one of her failings. Even her kids realized that.

[saku]

i agree. i havent watched the series yet but i have read some of the books and catelyn didnt just not love jon, she pretty much hated him. someone as smart and usually levelheaded as her had no reason to treat jon the way she did. like when bran first lost use of his legs, she straight up told jon that it should have been him instead. she was so shitty to him when he didn't deserve it. i like her well enough but that's one flaw i don't let slide.

eta: i understand why she dislikes jon and dont disagree that it proves its usefulness in the narrative. i think it adds valuable complexity to her character. but she went too far many times with jon, i think.

[(Anonymous)]

I love how most people in this thread have totally proved the sheer accuracy of OP's last paragraph while (presumably) missing it completely.

People mockingly handing Tyrion the "not as big a shithead as he could have been" award in this thread while acting like Catelyn deserves a parade for earning that reward herself, I can't even...No, it's not actually a point in her favour that she didn't physically and verbally make Jon's life hell every day the way "most other Westeros women" in her position would have. She still made it clear to him day in and day out that she would have liked to; that she hated his presence and would rather he evaporate from her household. That's a godawful environment to knowingly create for a child, especially when she damn well knew she was blaming him for something he couldn't help while showering affection on the guy actually responsible for the problem.

If Tyrion doesn't get cookies for meeting basic human decency standards by not raping Sansa when "most other Westeros men" in his position would have, no cookies for Catelyn either. It's not hard.