[ SECRET POST #2932 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2932 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 050 secrets from Secret Submission Post #419.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I get what you mean, but it's not like it's impossible to avoid the SJW spaces. I've managed it. (And no, bringing up the topic of feminism or liking female characters doesn't mean SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR SPACE.)

I don't know if anyone will agree with me, but in some ways, I think feminism has positively contributed to fandom as well. I remember being in fandom back in the day, and people would constantly bash the female characters, and refer to them as sluts. I just don't see that as much anymore these days. It's nice.

[(Anonymous)]

It's nice not to have female characters referred to as sluts, but honestly, I'm much more bothered about the witch hunts against real users that goes on nowadays.

I'd honestly rather we didn't have either, but if I had to choose, I'd pick having female characters called sluts and whores over how some fans are treating other fans like shit just for disagreeing with them.

Female characters aren't real. Those users are.

[(Anonymous)]

da
I'd honestly rather we didn't have either, but if I had to choose, I'd pick having female characters called sluts and whores over how some fans are treating other fans like shit just for disagreeing with them.
That used to happen back in the day too, you know. Not over SJ issues, but it's not like fandom used to be this communal utopia.

[(Anonymous)]

At worst, though, from what I saw, back in the day it was basically just people being rude and shouting each other down. People disagreed, had users they hated, ship wars and all that.

But now…it's just nasty.

"If you don't ship this, you're homophobic!"
"If you don't' ship this, you're racist!"
"You CAN'T hate this character or you're sexist."

That…combined with the doxxing is pretty fucking awful.

So while it's nice that female characters get called sluts/whores less, I don't really think fandom has improved.

[sarillia]

Why is being called homophobic or racist for not shipping something worse than any of the other ways that people have been insulting other fans over ridiculous things for as long as fandom has been around? I realize you didn't actually say that but that's always the impression I get from the way people talk about this and I don't get it. Why is "racist" so much harder to brush off than "bitch"?

[(Anonymous)]

For me, it just hurts because of everything I associate with that word. (My dad not being able to get work and the people who would have gladly killed us if they could have gotten away with it.) It's not something I can brush off easily.

And I just find it demeans something that actually matters -- it's demeaning to people who have actually experienced racism or homophobia or sexism to call someone that for stupid fandom BS. In a way that calling someone a bitch isn't. To me, at least.

[sarillia]

I guess this is just another one of those things that makes me weird. Sometimes I have an issue with something that other people don't see as a problem at all. Seems only fair for me to allow others to think I'm being problematic even though I disagree with them. All I can do is listen to people who are affected by these issues and do my best to avoid doing harm. As long as I'm confident that I'm doing this, it really doesn't bother me to have people claim I'm being sexist or whatever. I just say "I disagree and if you actually want to discuss this then I'll tell you why".

But again, I realize that I'm weird and it's not that easy for other people. It just sometimes surprises me to be reminded exactly how unusual it seems I am.

[(Anonymous)]

DA. Don't forget that with rampant callout posts, being called transphobic or racist can get you blackballed and have people harassing you. Even if it's so much as not agreeing with whatever non-canon headcanons they're screaming is canon or a ton of other things which are now deemed "problematic"

Also they dox people at any chance, so it is a lot worse than just being called a bitch. Now if you say something stupid because you were tired, you could deal with fifty people in your inbox telling you to kill yourself, people revealing your address, or a call out post that consists of such awful things as "this person said dumb once ATTACK THEM."

[sarillia]

I definitely understand being upset about this stuff. Harassment should always be taken seriously.

Where there's a disconnect for me is when people get seriously insulted by a general post saying that all people who ship a certain thing are homophobic or something. Or when it's limited to a single, short conversation.

[raspberryrain]

It can be more like when a friend of mine got her tumblr dogpiled by a swarm of people who got upset with her for using a phrase--"mild autism," I think it was.

That phrase was unacceptable in their circle (for some weird adolescent version of political reasons), so they kept reblogging her post and calling her out for it. So her activity feed was full of people saying she was terrible.

It wasn't directly fandom related, but one of the leaders had a blog that was supposedly "fandom."

While this was going on, I really felt the temptation to doxx them, just to make them stop. Of course, I didn't, and eventually they found something else to scream at. But it was really painful to see.

So, yeah, depending on what tumblr blogs you run into, "fandom" can be pretty bad.

[kittenmommy]

Now if you say something stupid because you were tired, you could deal with fifty people in your inbox telling you to kill yourself, people revealing your address, or a call out post that consists of such awful things as "this person said dumb once ATTACK THEM."

And yet they claim to be against bullying and are constantly calling people bullies!

[(Anonymous)]

Because being called a generic insult like "bitch" is just insulting. Call someone "racist" and you're labeling them evil and accusing them of perpetuating real-world suffering.

[(Anonymous)]

"Female characters aren't real. Those users are."

This, so damn much.

Yes, I fully understand that minority characters offer representation, but they not at the expense of the real people who are living that minority experience every day.

[(Anonymous)]

But what about the people in fandom that have been called bitch and slut in real life, and seeing people throw those words around hurts? Or do their feelings not count?

[(Anonymous)]

Their feelings count, of course, but I wouldn't ever equate someone calling a character a bitch/slut with someone calling a real person those names.

I don't think it's right to call female characters bitches or sluts. But if I had to choose between dealing with hate towards female characters or hate towards real people, I'd rather the female characters get hated on, to be honest.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

How the hell did you manage to extrapolate that from what I said? I just agreed with someone who said that real people > fictional characters.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd pick having female characters called sluts and whores over how some fans are treating other fans like shit just for disagreeing with them.

You are part of the problem. This is a terrible thing to say.

If you honestly cannot see how much damage that kind of language causes, enables and perpetuates, you are part of the problem.

Jesus, what a stupid, clueless, oblivious, "lemme play devil's advocate" thing to say. Fuck off. Here's a clue: In real life, no one screams "misogynist" etc. at people who don't smile at them on the street. Language like slut and whore has actual, real life consequences--usage of that language underlines the message that it's okay, that women really are the Other. Assholel fans are not an oppressed class--they don't ever have to worry about being followed on the street.

[(Anonymous)]

Too bad you took what I said COMPLETELY out of context:

"I'd honestly rather we didn't have either, but if I had to choose, I'd pick having female characters called sluts and whores over how some fans are treating other fans like shit just for disagreeing with them."

Yeah, calling female characters sluts and whores is an issue. NO WHERE did I deny that. But they're not real. So you know what? I will never take attacks against them as seriously as I do REAL people.

I'm not playing "devil's advocate" -- that's my opinion. A girl who calls a female character a bitch/slut/whore is wrong. But I'm even more bothered by people who dog pile and insult girls who, for example, don't like Loki. Why? Because that is a REAL person being insulted.

I remember someone (military personnel) tweeted at Tom Hiddleston that they didn't think it was cool that he was using the term "army" for his fans. He apologized and they parted amicably. But his FANS felt it necessary to attack and degrade this person. Which, I'm sorry, is not okay.

Less bashing of female characters is a good thing. But let's not pretend that this magically makes fandom a better place and that it hasn't gotten WORSE in other places (like doxxing, for instance).