[ SECRET POST #2934 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2934 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Sorry about that, working late again.

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 020 secrets from Secret Submission Post #419.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

09. http://i.imgur.com/KedYkut.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Do fanartists really ASK for those things though? I mean I know some do, but many just post fanart and then let people reblog it if they like it (this is what I do, I never actually ask people to favorite or reblog.)

I don't think it's wrong for writers to want kudos or whathaveyou but I think BEGGING for those things or bitching about it when you don't get them tends to turn people off. And I think this goes for fanart as well.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, at least in the sense that there's probably a better way on both sides & that asking for validation is not a bad thing in general.

That said, it's weird to me that the writer / artist divide is one that comes up so frequently on here, and in a way it makes me sad that people feel so strongly about it, because to me it really says that so many people just feel insecure and ignored and that makes me sad, I guess.

[(Anonymous)]

I honestly never knew fic writers had such a thing against fanartists until f!s.

I am a fanartist/artist and I want fic writers to get all the things fanartists have too, they deserve attention as well. But I also don't feel like it is the fault of fanartists that the fanart medium tends to get more, that's just kind of how things ended up.

[silverr]

Please, not all fic writers feel this way.

I absolutely admire people who can draw; I write because I can picture things but can't even begin to draw them (and so I spew thousands of words trying to convery what I see in my mind's eye).

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that all fic writers did, this is an honest apology, I should have phrased that better.

[silverr]

Aw, it's okay, I knew you didn't mean it that way; I'm just on an "anti-sweepting generalization" crusade lately.

[(Anonymous)]

As a writer, I have absolutely nothing against artists. It's a huge cliche, but some of my best fandom friends are artists rather than writers.

I do however find it incredibly frustrating that there's such a divide in how writers/artists are treated very differently, and the way art is seen as a superior fandom commodity than fiction. I also think that, as with most climates that benefit one section over another, artists aren't especially going to go out of their way to recognize that such a dichotomy exists. Hence your attitude "that's just kind of how things ended up."

[(Anonymous)]

How do fanartists do something about it though? I have to tell you, I don't read fic, it's not one of my interests. I draw fanart because it is one of my interests, and as much as I'd love to help fic writers out, I don't see how I can when it's just not my hobby.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe draw art for a fic whose idea you like? You don't read fic, but are there ANY stories in any of your fandoms you've read and liked? Or any whose premise you've heard? Using your gift to help out a fellow person whose gift you also value might be your way of doing something on a personal level. It's not an obligation, just something you might not have considered.

Alternatively, take part in a fic/art exchange or something, where you draw art to accompany someone else's fic? A friend who's an artist did it for a fic of mine recently (she drew 3 pictures to illustrate parts of the story she found particularly interesting) and I have to say I was super moved and really loved it!

[(Anonymous)]

Fic writer here. I don't have a "thing" against fanartists, I just wonder why the rules are so different for them vs. writers. It's not the artists I blame for it, though, it's the people who seem to think that art is more worthy of validation than fanfic.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Same.

For example, while I personally don't agree with making money from any fanwork, taking commissions as an artist is pretty much expected and par for the course, while fanfic writers a) don't get a fraction of the commissions anyway even if they touted them, and b) are judged for it.

How is it acceptable standard, encouraged procedure for fanartists to piggyback other people's creations for money, and not fanwriters? "Oh because the poor artist put so much time and effort into making their piece that they could have spent on something else to make money!" Yeah, well, so could the fanwriter? If anything, it takes longer to craft a decent length story than it does to draw art (several artists I know have actually made that point).

No, of course it's not any one individual artists' fault or responsibility, but there's definitely a huge chasm between the perceived 'value' of fanart vs. fanfic.

[(Anonymous)]

As a fic writer, I can assure you I don't have anything against fanartists. In fact, I love fanart and I'm grateful fanartists share it.

What I don't like is the fandom culture that puts artists in a pedestal and writers in the bottom.
I don't like being told that asking for criticism is the same as begging for comments and WHO I DARE!1!!, while an artist asking for reblogs+likes instead of just likes is not judged, because artists deserve everything they want.

[(Anonymous)]

It makes sense when you think about it, though. Fanart is something that can be enjoyed by anyone regardless of whether or not they know the canon in question - it only takes a brief moment to look at a picture and think "Wow, that's really pretty." You don't even have to know the characters to be able to appreciate the art style or composition.

Fic, on the other hand, requires a higher degree of investment both time-wise and in the canon itself. People tend not to read fics for canons they don't know, whereas I know multiple people who have gotten into things because they saw fanart for something and it intrigued them enough to want to check it out.

[(Anonymous)]

Except that applying some arbitrary value to the amount of investment - as in "artists can do things/behave in ways writers can't" - doesn't make sense, at all.

It takes less effort to reblog a fanart than it takes to reblog a fic, does that mean that the reblog for the art should count as more or less than the fic? Because right now, they count for much more.

[(Anonymous)]

sa

^ assuming of course that you're reblogging the fic because you've actually read it and want to share because you enjoyed it.

[(Anonymous)]

Artists usually ask for concrit though? Or if you're talking about those "reblogging for day/night crowd" posts, I assume that's just adapting to the nature of Tumblr.

[lb_lee]

I haven't really encountered this? But most of the artists I know who do fanart are also trying to sell their work, so the focus is on moneydollars.

[ex_mek82]

I've never encountered this before... at most, artists are begging/requesting for their original posts to be reblogged/liked instead of stolen/reposts of it, but that's entirely different.

[(Anonymous)]

The only time I have ever seen anything on writers vs artist for ANY of the fandoms that I'm in is here. Where is this epic battle going on? And I'm on Tumblr and haven't seen it, though I have seen mutual love posts.

[(Anonymous)]

IDGI either. But some people have this really strong feeling that writers should be writing for the love of the craft and that any sign of wanting or enjoying positive feedback is a betrayal of your art. It's a really pretentious way of thinking so I don't know why it's so pervasive.

Then there are the people who think every writer should be grateful for the slightest crumb because they're ecstatic to get a single kudos. That's a different type of irrationality with a bit of selfishness mixed in.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, this. And I think the fanartist conversation just spun off from those conversations. Lots of arguments about entitled authors, and then some people started bringing up the "but why is it acceptable when fanartists do this?"

As someone else mentioned upthread, I don't think it's a fanfic vs fanart issue. I think it's frustration at the inconsistent fandom attitudes towards both activities.

[(Anonymous)]

It's frustrating how there are different 'rules' as to what's okay for fanartists and fanfic writers.

I think it's horribly wrong that fanartists can make MONEY out of it, whereas fanfic writers cannot. It should be both can, or neither.

Transcript

[(Anonymous)]

Image: a picture of a hand drawing, diagonal with a piece of pencil art.

Text: I am very bitter over the fact that writers who ask for comments, likes/kudos, and reblogs are considered “entitled,” but fanartists who ask for the same are considered deserving and just seeking their due.

[harp]

Now that you mention it, I really haven't seen any sites or journals dedicated to "sporking" fan art. I'm sure they exist, but for every art sporking, there must be fifty or one hundred fanfic sporkings. The art critiques probably come with more "do this instead" and "work on that" encouragement rather than straight-up bashing.

In fact, I remember drawing something for the LJ community B_Lulz and someone from a serious community found it without reference to the in-joke, and posted it in some "srs bznss" Batman community. However, when I showed up and just said "it was me; I drew that, yes indeed", nobody said anything. I wonder if that'd be the response if it was fanfic and I acted in the same non-confrontational way.