fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2951 ]

[ SECRET POST #2951 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2951 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[The To-Do List, Brandy/Willy]

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03.

[Avatar: Legend of Korra]

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04.

[The Amazing World of Gumball]

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05.

[Agents of Shield]

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06.

[Game of Thrones]

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07.

[Galavant]

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08.

[Soukyuu no Fafner Exodus]

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09.

[Jamie Dornan from "The Fall"]

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10.

(Neil Gaiman)

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 054 secrets from Secret Submission Post #422.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm kind of upset with some WoC regarding Agent Carter and I feel guilty because I can see their point of view, but at the same time, I feel they're being really dismissive and it gets under my skin.

For full context: I'm half-white, half-POC but definitely white passing. Growing up, it didn't really help much because my last name makes it pretty clear that I'm not wholly white and our whole small town knew our origins anyway.

For Agent Carter, a lot of fans (especially WoC) I've seen on Tumblr are saying they won't support it because it's just another example of white feminism. And I agree that it could use more diversity.

At the same time, though, they also dismiss the fact that Hayley Atwell's father is Native American. While for Agents of Shield, they got on people's cases for pretending that Chole (Skye's actress) was white. Even though she's white passing as well and, like Hayley, has a white mother and POC dad.

The whole thing makes me feel guilty because I totally get that people want diversity, but at the same time, I feel like they're stripping away Hayley's identity and, implicitly, dismissing me as well. I'm angry at them. I know I shouldn't be. But I really, really am.

I think that's fair to feel.

Oh, for the love of--

Yes. I want every show on TV to have "representation" so it can turn into a "look how racist and sexist those assholes in the 40's were"-fest. That's entertaining.

Honestly, people always get messy when it comes to mixed actresses. I understand why you feel the way you do.

Agent Carter could use some more representation, but I also enjoy it for what it is. I'm always happy to support female lead series.

I have no idea how we got to the point where diversity is interpreted as meaning that there shouldn't be stories about white people.

Well, on the other hand, though, I don't think you should be required to support a TV series for any reason besides the fact that you like it to begin with, so they're justified in not watching it for that reason IMO

I agree with your second paragraph. But I will find it mighty suspicious when those same people who say they can't watch it because it doesn't represent POC continue to watch a million shows starring white men with just as little representation of POC.

This is kind of what bothered me too. A lot of them seem to really like the first Captain America movie. But that film was white as all get out. Jim Morita and Gabe Jones had about two lines each and probably under a minute of screen time.

Agent Carter did have one black character (even if he was rather villainous) but he had more dialogue than both Jim and Gabe combined.

And yet, I'll look and see Captain America gifs on their blogs and I just find it hard to comprehend their logic.

Do I appreciate the inclusion of Jim and Gabe? Yeah. But do I think their presence really elevates The First Avenger above Agent Carter in terms of representation? Not really.

I wonder why it's all right for stories about racism to be all about a man and his fellow men who are victims of it, but if a story about sexism is only about a white woman, it's evil white feminism.

And I feel guilty for feeling that way, because I have a couple colleagues who legitimately get annoying with their white woman tears about things outside of the tumblr internet social justice realm (things like "people respect to that black woman over there more than meeeee because they're afraid of being raaaaaacist, but they don't care about not treating me sexist") and I feel like I'm turning into them.

I don't know…

I mean, I completely understand the desire for inclusion. But at the same time, I think people forget that the 1940s were America's whitest decade. Where a full 90% of the population was white according to Wikipedia.

I saw someone mention changing Angie, for example, into a black woman. But then my mind thought of that really uptight woman who runs Angie and Peggy's apartment complex and I thought: "Would a black woman really have been allowed to live there in 1946?" Maybe. I mean, it's New York City and not the Jim Crow South. But I doubt it.

And I understand that Captain America is a superhero series and takes liberties with history (having both a black man and a Japanese man in Steve's unit when the Army was segregated during WWII). But at the same time, I still feel that that is at least plausible. That Steve, as Captain America, would have enough pull to get whoever he wanted on his unit.

But Peggy works for an intelligence agency. And I just feel like there should be inclusion, but at the same time, sometimes their suggestions sound like they would really sugarcoat history too, fantasy series or not. Maybe I'm wrong about that, I'll admit.

I feel like "secret agency supposed to fly under the radar" is a really good reason for somewhere to be less diverse in the 1940s, actually. There were still plenty of places and even countries that you just couldn't get a non-white person into around that time, and I really don't think "diverse, but everyone not-white mans the phones" is the kind of diversity that people want. I mean, we can maybe hold out that Anna is black and Jewish, which would be a nice change, but I think the show is working pretty well with what the time period provides.

Aaaaand then there are those who think choosing to set a story in a racist time period is just an excuse not to have POC in it. Let's not write about any time before the 1970s unless it's a moral about racism!

I'm pretty sure there was a black woman present (with a line even) during the dinner scene where they discuss stealing food. But yeah... that's it. I think making Angie non-white could have worked. I figure Peggy's life outside of work is the most likely place for diversity to occur, given that she lives in New York. Her fellow agents are all men, so I don't think a layer of racism in the organization on top of sexism is all that unbelievable.

I heard M*A*S*H had this same problem - the amount of diversity they wanted to have on the show was historically inaccurate for a U.S. Army medical unit in the Korean War.

It's really weird right now, my Tumblr dash is evenly divided between people begging others to give Agent Carter a chance because female-led series, and people begging others to boycott it because of the lacking diversity. It's odd to see those passionate posts occur like, right next to each other.

Personally, I think the complaints are valid (they could have easily made the show more diverse, and it's sad that they didn't), but I also think that Agent Carter is probably still a pretty good show. It's possible for something to be more than one thing. Actually, the weirdest part about this discussion, to me, is that people seem to think that watching/not watching some ABC show somehow makes you morally superior/inferior as a person.

I didn't know that Hayley Atwell was half Native American, though. It sucks that nobody seems to acknowledge that. And as another white-passing mixed race kid, I understand why this would bother you.

Nobody acknowledges HA is Native American because ~how can a British person possibly be Native American?!~

International travel? What is this sorcery!?

A lot of SJ folks are incredibly dismissive of people who are of mixed Native American blood, unfortunately. We don't count unless we favor our that side of our heritage very, very strongly...and even then, depending on the circle, we might still not count.

I'm as white as white gets, but that seems kind of weird. Like, Native Americans basically got the shortest possible short straw for centuries. Unless someone's claim to Native ancestry is the archetypical "1/32 Cherokee princess," what's the rationale behind the dismissive attitude?

Sympathetic irritated fist bump from another white passing :c

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[ SECRET POST #2951 ]

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