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⌈ Secret Post #2956 ⌋

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09. [ SPOILERS for Fiddler on the Roof ]

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I'm getting upset with rants about anti-vaxxers lately. People who write them seem to have stopped caring about the kids who aren't getting vaccinated because their parents are idiots, taking a tone along the lines of "If you want your kids to die of measles, fine, but exposing other kids who can't get vaccinated because they're allergic is unacceptable!" Like, what. Since when is it "fine" that some kids are getting diseases because their parents chose not to vaccinate them? Kids aren't their parents and they don't deserve to die for their parents' mistakes, even if you think the parents deserve it as punishment.

I agree with this. I will rant forever about anti-vaxxers. But them endangering their own kids isn't any better than endangering anyone elses. Their kids do not deserve to get sick or die just because their parents are idiots.

What bothers me is that there's key issues that aren't being addressed, like the fact that parents have seen their kids get sick from vaccines, and suddenly the autism symptoms show and their kids seem like completely different people. I'm not saying that's because of vaccines, I know it isn't, but why hasn't anyone explained that one?

Because of the timing. Those shots are given at around the same time that autism starts to show up, so assumptions are made about causation. And yes, there are side effects, rarely, and sometimes kids do get sick from them. The percentage compared to how horrible measles is, and given that measles can kill, does not in any way suggest that kids should not be vaccinated.

I HAVE seen the autism thing discussed, because I know a bunch of ASAN members. Basically, autism seems to manifest at around the age that vaccinations happen. It's a matter of correlation and not causation; autism just manifests around that age, often.

There are some other weird correlations with autism (for instance, with stomach problems, lactose intolerance, and sleep trouble) and there has been some talk about it possibly being related to diet, but I dunno how much stock to put in that.

--Rogan

...Yes? Some kids with autism grow up normally at first, only to regress around one to three years old.

"A significant proportion of children diagnosed with Autistic Spectrum Disorder experience a developmental regression characterized by a loss of previously-acquired skills. This may involve a loss of speech or social responsitivity, but often entails both. "

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11065-008-9073-y

This is, coincidentally, the same time that a lot of different shots are suggested for children.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/downloads/parent-ver-sch-0-6yrs.pdf

It's pure correlation, but there's no causation at all.

And, some kids just get sick from vaccines, it's just a thing that happens. Combined with the above correlation, a parent might believe that the kid got sick, and that caused the autism, but they'd be wrong.

My brother was that way. From the time he came out of the hospital till about the age of...2? 3?, he was a very social, happy baby/toddler. But around that time, if you look at pictures of him from just he year before, there's a stark difference., like there's this disconnect, like he's locked in his head.

Bu that has nothing to do with vaccines as he had some of those well before he started changing and goodness knows I don't have those symptoms and I had my vaccines early, too.

Because it is confirmation bias. This (http://aspiringdoctors.tumblr.com/post/82904348249/shut-the-fuck-up-about-vaccinations-not-everyone) post has some good references on it.

Er, people have explained it. It's just that people in general find it very hard to believe that sometimes horrible shit happens to good people for no reason. They'd rather look for someone or something to blame. Telling people it's a terrible coincidence doesn't satisfy them, so they keep looking for the "real" answer.

Personally, I think parents should be more concerned about all the pesticides that food is sprayed with and all the synthesized things that are in food, instead of, y'know, food. If vaccines caused autism, why is it only on the rise in recent years? Why didn't it start in the my mom's generation when everyone was vaccinated?

I'm just saying, there are LOTS of poisons that we surround ourselves with, and only a few of them are in injections.

Good point.

correlation is not causation

I assumed the use of that argument is to counter the defense of "well, it's MY kid."

Tangential, but here's an awesome comic about the whole "vaccines cause autism!" bullshit. I use it every time an anti-vax argument comes up, because why repeat myself over and over when someone has kindly done the work for me?

Now you too need never have a stupid pointless argument about Wakefield ever again!

--Rogan

I am fully on the pro-vax side but it's really weird to me how, at this point, people are almost in a race to show how committed and extreme they can be about being pro-vax. Like, people just get more and more intense about it, even in communities that are entirely pro-vax where no one disagrees with them

the internet is terrible, basically

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