[ SECRET POST #2969 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2969 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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02.
[The Sound of Music]


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03.
[Grayson]


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04.
[Criminal Minds (Spencer Reid)]


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05.
["Do You Love Me?" from Fiddler on the Roof]


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06.
[The 100]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 014 secrets from Secret Submission Post #424.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

The Anti-vax discussion yesterday really upset me with its hostility. Where I live, everyone (including the doctors) believe in risk-assessment, and in peoples ability/right/duty to make their own decisions. My daughter is Vaccinated, but not for everything. (because I'm a scientist and not a paranoid idiot, but I refuse to just stuff anything into my childs immune system that happens to be on the market, cause more's always better) But reading the thread made me realize that maintaining critical thinking alone within this topic would only result in being yelled at and called names.
Like back when I tried to spread actual information instead of wild rumors among my friends and colleagues about the nuclear plant accident in Japan, radiation and possible problems that might arise from it. (I'm not a physicist, but I did two semesters of physics, emphasis on nuclear physics...) I got shouted down for being "with the nuclear lobby".

I get that there's a cultural background for this, what with religious anti-medicine movements generally occurring much more in the US and the countermovement accordingly being more aggressive, but I just wish the americans among you would be aware enough to see that this background is not universal...

Also, to the person who went on about how two children died of the whooping cough, totally preventable: the current vaccines for the whooping cough are not very effective for very long. (unless whatever is in the US vaccines is vastly different from our stuff here) They do provide a certain protection and most of all mitigate the symptoms. You'll still be contagious, though, if you contract it. My Daughter is vacced for it, and when I was tested for it this winter due to a mean pseudo-whoop the Doctor told me that she was much more likely to contract it than I, because I'd been through an infection in early infancy already.

Now see, this is not anti-vax-talk. (Like I said, my daughter is vaccinated) This is undogmatically looking at the information there is. What people make of it should be their decision, as should be what they put in their or their childrens' bodies, if they believe it's in their best interest - within boundaries, to be sure, especially where children, or public health in times of crisis are concerned. I'd suggest that maybe you have a look at a few other first world countries' vaccing policies and just be open to the idea that just because in one culture it's the good pro vaxers vs. the bad anti vaxers, that doesn't have to be the case everywhere.

[(Anonymous)]

No, you are a paranoid idiot and a very poor scientist. Get your kids the *full* slate of vaccines you stupid anti-vaxxer and stop trying to make excuses. You are an asshole. You obviously weren't upset enough, if you were you'd have been shocked and upset into actually getting them. Moron.

[(Anonymous)]

And I hope you realize that "full" vaccination slate includes things like the chicken pox vaccine and HPV?

I've never had either. They didn't exist when I was young enough to be considered for them. I had chicken pox at eight. Caught it from a classmate. In fact, our whole class caught them. Not a single one of us died.

As for HPV? I'm 36 and have never had any kind of sex (oral, vaginal, anal.. not even frottage or handjobs or anything). So guess who's "well woman" exams turn up negative for HPV WITHOUT having been vaccinated?

I think the OP is well within her rights to choose which vaccinations her child gets, and I applaud her for that.

[lb_lee]

In fact, our whole class caught them. Not a single one of us died.

Congratulations. Not every child has a robust immune system. Immuno-compromised children, such as ones with cancer, are at more risk. Kids get the vaccines nowadays to protect THOSE children, and the elderly and other weakened folks around them. It's not as simple as you're making it out. (And note, I too predate the chicken pox vaccine. That doesn't mean I wouldn't vaccinate my kids against it. Why put them through a disease needlessly?)

I think the OP is well within her rights to choose which vaccinations her child gets, and I applaud her for that.

You're acting here like chicken pox and HPV are the same as polio, rubella, and measles. Not all diseases are created equal. As someone who worked with polio survivors from the pre-vaccine age, it is my opinion that only someone insulated from all experience with polio would have the sheer arrogance of not vaccinating their healthy child against it. Because even if THEIR kid doesn't get sick, they increase the risk for other people with compromised immune systems.

This isn't like choosing chocolate over vanilla ice cream, this is a matter of public safety. You aren't just "choosing" to risk your child, but the lives of other people around them, and I don't appreciate you oversimplifying these matters. It's misleading and dishonest.

--Rogan

[(Anonymous)]

I got chicken pox when I was a kid, too, because you're right, there wasn't a vaccine. But chickenpox not only can be deadly (every year, kids would and do die from it), just having chickenpox puts you at higher risk from shingles.

That's the thing about science. It's getting better, we're learner more, and the medical technology is advancing.

By the way, here's a tip on how to be more science minded - NEVER use anecdotal evidence for why you shouldn't do something that scientists recommend. Actually research, look at the statistics and numbers, and exactly WHY the vaccine is recommended. "Well I didn't do it and I'm fine" is the worst argument ever.

[(Anonymous)]

Two semesters of physics does not actually qualify you to claim expertise on it, and any decent scientist would know that.

Just as any decent scientist would know that giving the full battery of childhood vaccines does not, in fact, qualify as "stuffing anything into a child's immune system that happens to be on the market".

[lb_lee]

Critical thinking! I love critical thinking! And science too! Let's talk about both and vaccination!

Here is a short comic about the history of the "vaccines cause autism" argument. It is FASCINATING, involving bad business, medical malpractice, and the abuse of children.

Here's also a video about the psychology behind the anti-vaccination movement. One of the lines that stood out to me: "if vaccination is presented as a personal choice instead of a necessity for good public health, potentially harmful inaction can seem more moral than potentially harmful action."

Science and critical thinking are so cool. We're so glad to have the opportunity to discuss it.

--Sneak and Rogan

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with you. People are far too dogmatic. But they don't even see it, so they're just going to reject what you're saying because it disagrees with the dogma.

[(Anonymous)]

Lol yes, stupid science and reality and its "dogma"..

[(Anonymous)]

You can have dogmatic points of view that invoke the name of science and that claim to accurately represent reality. It's quite easy. You can even have beliefs which are totally correct that are also dogmatic in character, if they're believed in a dogmatic way. And I think that's what's happening here.

[(Anonymous)]

There's a reason things get heated when you bring up parents having the "right" to decide what goes into their children's bodies: it doesn't just affect their children, but children around them. Not getting vaccinated hurts other kids, too, especially sick or weak children who aren't able to be vaccinated for medical reasons, or babies that are too young for vaccinations. Basically, it's not about you, it's about us as a community. So if people name-call, well, that's a helluva lot better than you giving my baby measles.

Here's the thing: scientists who recommend vaccines are not a government conspiracy. There are very, very good reasons why these vaccines are recommended, and the reasons are very easy to research.

No, I don't believe a parent has the "right" to be negligent about their child's healthcare. If your kid has cancer, you don't get to refuse medical treatment because you'd rather "pray it away" or some other alternative rubbish. So if your kid is at risk for a deadly but easily preventable disease, damn right I think parents are obligated to get them vaccinated.

[(Anonymous)]

Re: critical thinking, nothing that you said about whooping cough was actually anything close to a reason not to get vaccinated against it.