Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2015-02-21 03:54 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2015-02-21 03:54 pm
[ SECRET POST #2971 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2971 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 086 secrets from Secret Submission Post #425.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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(Anonymous) 2015-02-21 11:08 pm (UTC)(link)There's also way more wank about Gamzee these days. I guess everyone is tired of Vriska.
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But anyway - eh. Gamzee killed people in a state of mental...super-weirdness. Eridan killed two and came close to killing three (end result was one but only because of Kanaya's vampire-thing) in cold blood. He also destroyed the Matriorb (the trolls' one hope of surviving as a species) AND was just generally a douche day-to-day. Gamzee is no saint, but I think Eridan is worse by comparison.
Did Vriska used to incite a lot of wank? (I miss old!Vriska. She's kind of boring in the story now, even a bit annoying, which makes me sad.)
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(Anonymous) 2015-02-22 12:15 am (UTC)(link)Yeah, it was two years!
I think it has a lot to do with how the canon treats them both.
Eridan is treated more by the story like a sad loser doing loser-y things that sadly got his friends killed, while Gamzee was portrayed outright monstruously regarding Terezi, what with Karkat and Kanaya staring on in horror when they see him hurting her.
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Still, I don't like the "woobify Eridan" attitude. He was a sad loser and being a sad loser isn't an excuse to do what he did. He didn't accidentally "get his friends killed"; he straight-up shot them in the chest with a giant gun! Including the girl he was supposed to have flushed feelings for!
Gam isn't blameless by any means, but his actions didn't come about from self-pity and teenagey angst; they actually happened because of his mental state and not having access to the drug that calms him down. I can totally get why people don't like him, but it's hard for me to hold him to the same level of responsibility as Eridan.
Eridan has (or had?) a big fangirl base, though, right? That's probably part of it. I never saw the appeal myself, but it is kind of amazing how someone being popularly attractive changes the way fandom perceives their actions.
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(Anonymous) 2015-02-22 04:57 am (UTC)(link)And what bothers me the most is that he was in a position to really get everyone ahead, and not only did he waste it, but actively sabotaged it.
I think that the deal with Gamzee, fanwise, is that we don't really get him on the same level as the other characters. Like Hussie said, he is an unknowable clown with motives unknown. To what degree is he conscious of what he's doing, how willingly is he serving Lord English, etc. (I do feel sorry for him, though. I miss drugged Gamzee. :( He was a nice dude.)
And yeah, Eridan does have his following because purple and capes and- and purple? vov
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(Anonymous) 2015-02-22 12:16 am (UTC)(link)no subject
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(Anonymous) 2015-02-22 01:30 am (UTC)(link)We're not even sure how accountable Gamzee is, but he definitely should be held more responsible now than during his murder spree.
Eridan tried to murder one person more and destroyed the matriorb.
Both rat out their friends. Gamzee just managed to keet at it for three years. The villian he's supporting wants to destroy the entire existence of the universe(s) and has already commited genocide, right?
Eridan's betrayel seemed more like an opportunistic spur of a moment thing.
Gamrezi was definitely worse in practice than Erifef.
I doubt Eridan would have managed to stay very dangerous if he had survived somehow.
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I think "spur of the moment" is a pretty bad justification for Eridan's actions. He did what he did with a clear heard, unlike Gamzee, and the consequences are arguably more dire, because of the matriorb. (It wasn't quite as painful a scene as Eq and Nepeta's deaths, but then, that was basically designed to be an emotional face punch, so yeah, fuck you AH!)
Talking about who is more dangerous is different to me than talking about who is a worse person. Gamzee is very dangerous indeed and I can completely understand why someone would want to avoid him. However, the reason he's like that isn't because he chose to be - it's because his entire mental state is always either a) uncontrollably, insanely genocidal or b) high off his ass. Eridan, on the other hand, was a pompous prick who actively looked down on those "beneath" him and made a mentally sound choice to commit murder. (Vriska did that too, at least the latter part, but I guess also the former in a different way; I'd definitely rank her above Gam as well as far as characters who are dicks.)
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(Anonymous) 2015-02-22 06:00 am (UTC)(link)And I agree that Gamzee may not be responsible for his actions, there have been a lot of hints that would suggest he's been brainwashed for a long time.
But in general these arguments crack me up because the trolls are TROLLS and not humans and they live by different rules then humans do. A lot of them are villains on different levels, but it's okay to like them and still know they do horrible things. I guess sometimes fandom weirds me out when they get passionate about these arguments because none of the trolls should be either woobified nor should they be completely vilified.
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(Anonymous) 2015-02-22 11:15 am (UTC)(link)I also don't think black relationships are supposed to be that shitty. There's evidence that Gamzee physically abused Terezi, even when she told him to stop; that he talked her into correcting her eye sight.
I don't see it as a justification of what he did, but there's a difference between betraying your people once and for all- and doing it for three years. All while being in a relationship with two of them.
Yeah, Gamzee is not wholly responsible for his actions, but none of it can be blamed for being high, if you think back. He hasn't been high since he ran out of sopor and he stayed ok until Dave sent him the video.
He has been sober for three years and knows what he's doing, +- mind control. Personally I see no reason why somebody should mind control him into abusing Terezi though.
If it all comes down to being crazy, well, I guess this sort of crazy makes you evil for no reason.
Bad is vague, but I see it more as his consequences. You can rank him differently by how much of a dick he is.
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(Anonymous) 2015-02-22 12:05 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
Which pale relationship are you talking about? Eri/Fef or Karkat/Gamzee?
(I guess the point I'm trying to make overall is that Eridan is more to blame that Gamzee. There's a lot of uncertainty with Gam, but there's literally no excuse at all for Eridan and it's just a lot more clear. eh.)