fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2993 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2993 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 123 secrets from Secret Submission Post #428.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 - pretty sure these are all the same spammer anon trying to win the non-existent "weirdest fandomsecret/sex fantasy" award. There are more I missed, and some that went up yesterday. If one of these is not the same anon, please PM me ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Feminism is about destroying gender "roles" and believing that men and women are equal. Which benefits both men and women.

well, sure, but I would say that all variants of feminism that I'm aware of, at least, would agree that gender roles and the patriarchal nature of society is relatively more harmful towards women, and more beneficial towards men. Certainly, that seems to be the assumption that underlies most feminist policy and critique.

I'm not really arguing against the principle, even

It used to be that. These days, feminism has been usurped by the extreme, psychopathic crowd. There is a reason why only 18% of men and 38% of women identify as feminists. Extremists have ruined its image.

I wouldn't agree that extremists have usurped it.

It certainly has a terrible public image, but I think that it suffers from the same thing that Islam does -- the extremists get all the press. Where as the quiet, sane ones are actually going out and doing good works, living normal lives.

And thus its public image is ruined. But I don't think the answer to that is to throw feminism out. It's important to reclaim the word from extremists which is why I still call myself a feminist.

Feminists were also the first to recognize the destructiveness of gender roles, which is something that egalitarianism doesn't.

I don't think it is possible. Mostly because most feminists I see don't try to stop the extremists. they either ignore them or go, "Those aren't REAL feminists." as if that makes it any better.

I think your experience is limited because I have seen feminists push back against the extremists. Particularly TERFs, for example.

But the internet tends to magnify the most extreme positions unfortunately.

Regardless, I'm not just going to give up. It'd be like conceding Christianity because of the Westboro Baptist Church or the existence of fundamentalists.

What more are we supposed to do to "stop" them, other than calling them out?

At some point you have to recognize that every group has extremists and choose to not define the larger group that way. It's a recognizable pattern for every religion, political ideology, social movement, subculture, etc. etc. etc. with more than like 20 people that has ever existed.

I don't know. The same thing feminists expect men to do to stop other men from raping?

Men can help, though.

I remember talking to a psychologist who mentioned that laughing at rape jokes (something that both men and women do) promotes rape culture because, while the men laughing don't support rape in any form, it gives rapists the impression that (secretly) all men WOULD rape if they could get away with it. It makes it seem like that frame of mind is normal.

Calling out little things like that is something men can do because women often aren't taken as seriously.

No...no it doesn't. that is not how that kind of shit works. Do you really think that a rapist hears a joke and goes, AH HA! I knew rape wasn't bad. Even though literally EVERYTHING in my life says otherwise. This comedian made a joke AND I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT!

(no subject)

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diet_poison - 2015-03-15 23:39 (UTC) - Expand

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diet_poison - 2015-03-16 02:50 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2015-03-15 23:54 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2015-03-16 17:59 (UTC) - Expand

You mean...call out bad behavior?

Which is what I'm talking about? and what I see happen all the time?

You really went there. That is grossly offensive and a repellent equivalence.

No, the reason is that it's socially beneficial for them to avoid the label because of all the lies that are told and believed about feminism.

People have been claiming that feminists are ugly, man-hating, female supremacists with no sense of humour for WELL OVER A HUNDRED YEARS, jsyk.

It would help if large portions of the internet didn't support this. The difference between 100 years ago is that these people are out in the open and can have their views validated by other crazies.

I have actual family members who think this way :(

Same. Although to be fair they tend to think this because of this one crazy aunt I have.

Family: "Feminists are crazy"
Me: "No we're not. We just want equality"
Aunt: "That's right, we just want women to be equal to men. The best way to do this is through selective abortion so that the male population is roughly one third that of women"
Me: "God damn it Aunty stop helping!" (Of course I don't say this, because she is, to be perfectly honest, FUCKING CRAZY. and more than a little violent)

lol woooooow.

I guess I'm lucky that I only have one kind of crazy in my family, not both.

And more and more places like tumblr and ONTD are proving them right

This, full stop. There is no amount of feminism that won't get a woman called a man-hating harpy. Even Emma Watson got death threats for being a feminist and she's as inoffensive as it gets.

Augu I know. I once got called a "misandrist" because I said I wanted male politicians to do more research before trying to outright ban abortion, because they'll never have to go through with it and don't know what it's like.
Apparently that secretly meant I hated all men and wanted to kill them lol.

Yeah, and people in this thread who call themselves egalitarian get accused of being misogynists simply for wanting to choose a different label. Funny how that works.

where has a self-identified egalitarian been directly accused of being misogynist?

Exactly. Anon brought it up for litteraly no reason. Like lol the equalitarians in this thread aren't doing a very good job of defending themselves.

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(Anonymous) - 2015-03-16 13:15 (UTC) - Expand

diet_poison - 2015-03-16 18:02 (UTC) - Expand

I do not agree.

Oh, I agree the death threat are bullshit, I just mean (and I say this as a feminist) I do not go along with some of the stuff she said in the "HE for SHE" speech.

I can kinda see why a guy might find it insulting. I found it a bit patronizing myself.

THIS!!