[ SECRET POST #3031 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3031 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Going to be a late day, so early secrets!

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 035 secrets from Secret Submission Post #433.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I appreciate the sentiment but, as ever, it really doesn't help with the cognitive dissonance I got with these rape fantasies.

[erinptah]

With your own, or with other people's?

If they're your own: my sympathies. Some cognitive dissonance is natural -- you know the thing is bad IRL, so your brain is careful and hesitant around it in fiction. (And that's good! Especially for kinky people who are going to get anywhere near roleplaying this stuff with another human being, because you need lots of thought and care and consideration to make that work.) Don't try to kick the discomfort away by force, but don't beat yourself up for your tastes, either. Just sit with them, give your brain time to sift through them.

If they're other people's: eh, as long as you don't go around harassing anyone, feeling privately uncomfortable is fine. Your Squick Is Not My Squick, and That's Okay.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreeing with this comment.

Also for many people who write rape fic, it's not even about fantasies, it's about dealing with a horrific thing in a way you're in control of.

[erinptah]

True. Although, by "not even about fantasies," do you mean something like "not about arousal" or "not about kink"? Because what you're describing is still fantasy, it's just a control fantasy, or a safety fantasy, rather than a sex fantasy.

(And for many people, the same story can work as both!)

[(Anonymous)]

True. I think I meant... it can be a way of contronting fear and darkness, or working it out of your system. I think fic can explore things without it being a fantasy, as such. Except in that of course you have to imagine it in detail in order to write it.

Although the secret specifically says fantasies, so I suppose I'm drifting off topic.

[erinptah]

Ah! In that case, agreed.

[(Anonymous)]

What cognitive dissonance?

I have rape fantasies. Not because I want to literally be raped in real life but because it's a fantasy that expresses the opposite of reality.

I'm completely ignored in real life. No one pays me compliments. No one finds me attractive. No one looks twice at me. No one wants me.

So is it really that surprising that, in my fantasies, I like to imagine that a guy wants me so badly that he literally can't control himself? That I'm so desirable to him that it overwhelms his self-control?

[diet_poison]

I hate to be that person but...that's not how rape really works.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Fast & Furious movies aren't how cars really work!

Hannibal isn't how serial killers really work!

Nothing John Woo has ever filmed is how gunfights really work!

Romantic comedies aren't how romance really works!

NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE THE FUCKING POINT AND AYRT KNOWS THAT.

[diet_poison]

But when there's a more accurate word (ravishment) for what OP is describing it really bugs me when people use "rape" that way because it does perpetuate wrong ideas of what rape is about (desire v. power).

I will admit the whole thing just gets on my nerves and beyond the reason given I can't really articulate why. We've had this conversation so many times before, and it always rubs me the wrong way.

[(Anonymous)]

How about you stop policing other people's fantasies? Including what they call their fantasies?

[diet_poison]

I'm not trying to police the fantasy ITSELF so you don't need to have such a jerky knee. I just have an issue with the descriptor because I think it causes problems, such as continuing to muddle the meaning of the word "rape".

[(Anonymous)]

Another DA

I get what you mean about ravishment fantasy being the most descriptive term for what's going on with thread!OP's fantasies, but I think from the outside they both involve nonconsensual sex scenarios -- hence are likely to be labeled as rape by people examining the fantasy. "Rape" is a label we give to nonconsensual sex, so it seems perfectly reasonable for someone to describe ravishment fantasy as rape fantasy. I can see why someone would conversely have issue with NOT labeling ravishment fantasy as a form of rape fantasy because that would be denying the absence of apparent consent in the scenario itself.

(It's interesting because I'm someone who has rape fantasies that can't really be described as ravishment fantasy at all -- I'm often not involved in the fantasy (although sometimes I am) and the rapist's attractiveness or attraction to me/the victimized character is vague/irrelevant/unspecified, so it's pretty clear it's not about feeling attractive and wanted but more about feeling controlled/powerless. It's quite cool that thread!OP and my fantasies both involve rape as an element, and yet can be so different in meaning.)

[diet_poison]

That's interesting, I haven't heard of any fantasy like that before. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

AIRT is talking about a fantasy that's centered around being wanted and lack of control, and that's just...not what rape means. It has little if anything to do with the definition of "rape" which is why I took issue with it. Of course I may have misread it or maybe AIRT left out some info? I don't know. I hope I haven't come across as hostile.

[(Anonymous)]

But that's an incredibly condescending and patronizing attitude to take towards women who actually have these fantasies. And that's obvious in your first post, because you assume she couldn't POSSIBLY know that fantasy rape isn't the same as real rape.

Wrt power v. desire: not all real rape is actually about power. This is part of why there's a lot of confusion over what rape actually entails. Sometimes, rape happens because someone's desire really does override both their better judgment and empathy. It's good to talk about the kind of rape that's about power, especially since that's the kind of rape committed by serial, predatory rapists. But it's really not good at all to say that rape is never about desire, because that ignores so much of what actually happens. And making this division between the two, and having ravishment = desire and rape = power, is really, really fucking dangerous, because it contributes to the idea that certain kinds of RL non-consensual sex aren't actually as bad.

Also, a lot of people who have rape fantasies are turned on by the power dynamic. It's the idea of not being in control and of being completely and totally powerless that gets them off.

[diet_poison]

because it contributes to the idea that certain kinds of RL non-consensual sex aren't actually as bad.

Ironically my issue with it is also that I think the wording AIRT was using is harmful IRL by messing with the definition of rape. We seem to be coming at it from completely different directions, though. I didn't even make the "rape is about power" claim; where I'm coming from is that desire and lack of control do not mean rape at all - and neither does power for that matter because plenty of people engage in consensual power play. (ETA: allow me to correct myself. I didn't remember typing it but I did actually make that claim. While I don't think I've ever heard of someone raping out of sheer desire, I guess I can't say it doesn't exist. I apologize. I didn't mean to invalidate anyone's experiences.)

But that's an incredibly condescending and patronizing attitude to take towards women who actually have these fantasies.

I'm not saying people shouldn't have those fantasies? At all?

And that's obvious in your first post, because you assume she couldn't POSSIBLY know that fantasy rape isn't the same as real rape.

I didn't say that either. Obviously AIRT knows what fantasy is...

I get that you're frustrated but it feels like you're responding from a general frustration with this whole discussion and not specifically to me. To be fair, though, I'm probably also doing that myself. :/