fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3040 ]

[ SECRET POST #3040 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3040 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Once Upon a Time]

__________________________________________________

02.

[Tree of Savior]

__________________________________________________

03.

[Disturbed's 'Indestructible']

__________________________________________________

04.

[Whitechapel]

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

[Bill Bailey]

__________________________________________________

07.

[Total War: Warhammer]

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

[Morph]

__________________________________________________

10.

[Harry Potter]

__________________________________________________

11.

[FFXIV, RuPaul's Drag Race]

__________________________________________________

12.

[Monstrous Regiment by Terry Pratchett]

__________________________________________________

13. [SPOILERS for Nightcrawler, Gone Girl]

__________________________________________________

14. [SPOILERS for Devil Survivor]

__________________________________________________

15. [SPOILERS for Age of Ultron]

__________________________________________________

16. [SPOILERS for Broadchurch]

__________________________________________________

17. [WARNING for incest, abuse, suicide, and probably necrophilia]

[Sankarea]

__________________________________________________

18. [WARNING for abuse]

[Steven Universe]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #434.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Is the whole sterilization thing...

Like, Bruce feels monstrous because he HURT people as the Hulk and couldn't control himself.

And Natasha's response to that is to compare it to how she was forcibly sterilized? Something that was DONE to her?

And given the baggage that women and reproductive rights have, it just really really didn't sit well with me that this is the angle Whedon went.

I just can't imagine an actual woman EVER writing something like that.

spoilers

I agree, that was a bit weird. But I think what Natasha was trying to get at was that because she was sterilized, there was no one that could ever "distract" her, no one she'd love that would interfere with a mission, ergo she's done a lot of terrible shit. Because she hasn't loved anyone.

Overall I thought the pseudo love story between them was a bit random but mostly genuine and one of the better parts of the movie, but I didn't think the movie was that good. Too much random, unrelated stuff - as the example you pointed out really trying to hash in the ~backstories~ - and random non sequiter events like Natasha randomly getting kidnapped for like two minutes and then saved because... because... ?

The bit with Natasha getting kidnapped and then saved by Bruce was so random that I actually thought it was some sort of dream/planning sequence for pretty much the whole scene until she forcibly Hulk'd him and they appeared with the others again later.

ayrt

Natasha's plotline was really disappointing to me because while it felt like she actually got a tiny bit of ~~Tony Stark's~~ screen time, it was all angst and distress without ever building up to anything. I was SO hoping that she'd be the one to use Thor's hammer (she didn't try picking it up) or do something else totally badass. But instead nothing happened with her. Like she sort of fought at the end, but nothing climactic or kickass. And why did she get kidnapped? I guess she sent the location to the Avengers or whatever but it just seemed so random, unnecessary and lame. What was Ultron's motivation? And the scene lasted like under two minutes, as did a lot of other random "something important (?) is happening scenes" (like Thor's solo adventures) it was all just boggling.

/rant

Yeah, I definitely liked that her background was expanded on, but quite a lot of parts that were supposedly character development felt like they were cut out from longer scenes and pasted on since they were just kind of there instead of leading anywhere. I would have liked to see something more come out of the dream sequence Wanda induced in Natasha (and everybody else, really), but it turned out to be just a 'ooh no everybody's hurt' moment.

Still, I did like the movie, especially since I can't say I was expecting it to be much better than it was. It pretty much met my expectations and stopped there.

DA. I took it more that she felt like a monster because she was trained to be a killer and essentially had any sort of normal life robbed from her (which ties to the sterilization.)

The dialogue may not have done the best job of expressing all her feelings, but I didn't really feel offended when watching the movie and I'm usually sensitive to that sort of thing.

But here's the thing, would a man having a normal life robbed from him be depicted through sterilization?

Because that's a trope I've not seen. And it seems like it's FAR more common for women to be depicted as not being able to have a "normal" life if they don't have kids.

Which leads to unfortunate implications...

True but at the same time, Bruce was telling her "I can't have all this", this being kids, because in his line of thinking Natasha CAN have that.

That is why Natasha tells him about the sterilization, because that's not a life she can have either and she wants to be with him.

So that scene was telling us both Bruce and Natasha can't have that life and basically putting them on equal ground.

He was saying he couldn't have kids (because of the big, green monster thing) and she told him why she couldn't have kids (they were sterilized so that they would never have a child they would put ahead of their mission and because it made it easier to kill). I got from her statement that she feels like she's a monster because it was easy for her to kill, not because she was sterilized.

I think there are actually a lot of things at play here.

1. After the events of TWS her value as an undercover agent was probably called into question and "What else can I be?" existential crisis crap.

2. Didn't they just have a lecture from Ultron about how everything wants to create? Already vulnerable from hallucinations and arriving somewhere with a "conventional" family that is safe, I can see how it would be part of what jumbled mess comes out.

3. Mostly importantly- Natasha "Who Do You Want Me To Be?" Romanov is absolutely reflecting back Bruce's feelings in order to build a connection to get what she wants from Banner. I don't think it's deliberate, but she's used kids against him before (the little girl who lured him away, touching the cradle during their discussion) so it's in her repertoire.

It's the kind of thing that isn't unacceptably unrealistic--a woman could have some serious insecurities about that regardless of it not being her fault--but Joss Whedon maybe doesn't have any business treading on it. Plus it just felt vaguely OOC for Natasha.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who felt like she was treading OOC. Not completely, but I just... couldn't feel like I was watching something in the same vein of continuity as the last couple of movies.

Eh, in the comics, its been revealed that natasha in the past DID get pregnant at one point, but had a miscarriage trying to get away from some enemy soldiers. This was shortly before she was recruited in the red room program and given the Russian version of the super serum which apparently made her sterile as a side effect. Even though she never talks about it, It's heavily implied that she still feels awful about what happens because she never got the time to mourn and secretly wishes for a family. It's in "In the Name of The Rose" arc in case you're interested, it's really good imo.

I was thinking more about how Natasha's guilt over her past has been treated so far in the movies; I could see her never completely getting over the sense of responsibility since she even seems to use it as a motivator to do right, but when it's taken to the point that she feels like less of a person because she can't have children...it just doesn't feel like her way of dealing with it? On the other point, I would just hate to be mistaken for assuming it's OOC for her to think about starting a family just because she's tough or whatever, but the info is good to have :)

Tbh I dont think natasha was talking about being sterilized as her proof of being a monster. I think it was implying that she felt that way because she had her choices and free will ripped away from her and was turned into a killing machine. She only brought sterilization up because bruce brought it up first. That scene definalty could of been written better.

I secretly shipped this pairing for years and it was my weird little crack paring that I would occasionally read fic about but never expected in a million years to ever become canon.
But now I'm actually kinda excited since this has never happened to me before. Also all the whining and crying from the obnoxious clintasha shippers just makes me want to like it even more.

> Also all the whining and crying from the obnoxious clintasha shippers just makes me want to like it even more.

Oh man, I haven't been in the fandom but poked around for some Bruce/Nat stuff (and wrote my first fic in years!) and seen the obnoxious Clintasha shippers reactions as a result. I'm usually a live and let live shipper, but holy fuck are some of them awful. Natasha has been completely destroyed as a character and was nothing more than a vehicle of Bruce's manpain, Scarlett Johannson must be disgusted, Barton's canonical relationship was only introduced to ruin Clintasha but maybe they'll kill off Laura to put them back together in Infinity Wars. It's gross, and I also wonder how good a grasp they had on Natasha's character to start with- she holds her own in fights, she uses words to gain power (the lullaby) over something that she was initially scared of due to lack of control, she adds somebody to her circle of trust after he's proven himself repeatedly, she fights some more, she uses the resources at hand when she's kidnapped*, and when the chips are down she betrays the trust of somebody she values because it's the right thing to do. Then she stays with the Avengers instead of immediately running off to rescue the guy she's interested in, because the mission comes first.

*Which is one of the things that suffered from editing and can be icky, but makes narrative sense. Any way they found Ultron was going to be forced. Being the only close range, non super fighter made her the logical choice for capture, unfortunately. She then send out an SOS message; I hear people asking why she didn't just escape, but from where she was she could KEEP sending out the message until she knew it was received even if it put *her* in more danger.

But no, she wants some non-Barton dick and everything is ruined forever. Want to argue certain points? Go ahead; I may or may not agree, but valid arguments exist. Want to gnash your teeth and wail hyperbolically that the entire MCU is now in ruin?

I'm getting too old for fandom shit.

I know right?!?
Literally 75% of anti-brucenat posts I've seen always seem to be:

Anti BN: Bruce/Nat is awful because it ruins Natasha's character and makes her relay on a man and her whole existence relays on a guy!!!

AntiBN: (continues to wax poetry for the next five paragraphs about how better Natasha would be with Clint/Steve/Bucky.)

Like omg it's so hypocritical.

I think the "monstrous" part was really meant to refer to the killing, not the being sterile. But I also think that, due to mildly clumsy writing, it REALLY can come across that way, which is super unfortunate. Makes me sad because I've always shipped Natasha/Bruce hard and want them to be in good scenes together.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3040 ]

Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...

Re: Spoilers...what bothers me...