[ SECRET POST #3073 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3073 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.


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03.
[Master Chef]


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04.
[The Raven Cycle by Maggie Stiefvater]


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05.
[Harry Potter]


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06.


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07.
[Star Wars]


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08.
[Frank]


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09.
[Discworld]


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10.
[Baccano!]


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11.
[Cher Lloyd/Kingsman: The Secret Service]


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12.
[Eurovision]


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13.
[Hannah Rutherford (Yogscast)]










Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 032 secrets from Secret Submission Post #439.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. http://i.imgur.com/88IDxo8.png
[Baccano!]

Transcript by OP

[fscom]

I hate how he's the series darling--not only does he constantly get shoved in your face as one of the best characters, people act like he's a good person, too. I find the whole "I'm a god" schtick and the seeming omnipotence that comes with it--his scenes have no tension because you know they'll always turn out how he wants!

But what bothers me the most is people acting like the paid killer who's willing to risk killing a woman to get at her fiance is a good person. Especially when they act like the scared kid who attempted murder deserved the torture of being grated on train tracks, but think that this guy is perfect

[(Anonymous)]

Ehh in a show where there are actually several sadistic killers who are happy to murder and torture where they can... this guy's faults are easy to overlook.

[(Anonymous)]

Do people really think he's a good person, or just a good character? Because those are different things. I think he's definitely interesting & entertaining, though a lot of the characters in Baccano are!

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Nope, people think he's a good person. Mainly the tumblr fandom, but that seems to be all that's around these days.

[(Anonymous)]

A male character who does awful things being praised, loved, and have his actions excused by fandom??
Say it ain't so!

[(Anonymous)]

As far as I know, a big pull of this show is the very fact that it includes so many ridiculous, over-the-top bad guys, so people would definitely like them for being villainous?

Then it just makes sense to me that people'd prefer them to a very serious kid character.

[(Anonymous)]

You think this is a male character phenomenon? Have you been anywhere in fandom in the last decade?

[vethica]

THANK YOU. I know I have no room to talk because I'm a fan of Ladd, but at least he's entertaining. Claire is obnoxious.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Oh man, glad I'm not alone. I enjoy Ladd a lot more as well. In part because he doesn't get the same fawning from canon, but he really is a lot more fun to me whereas Claire is either annoying or boring.

[(Anonymous)]

In a show where most of the characters are in the mafia/gangs, it's hard to judge them on a normal scale of morality

[(Anonymous)]

I admit he's one of my favorite characters in the series, but it's precisely because he's so morally grey (though as anon above pointed out, so is virtually everyone in the series).

I never understand why people feel the need to take complex character and turn them into fluffy bunnies. Embrace the fact that he's fucked up and dark; that's what makes him a fascinating and interesting character (which as yet another comment said upthread, is distinct from making him a good person).

Honestly, I don't see the woobifying of Claire to be anywhere as bad as the woobifying of Izaya in Durarara!!

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I don't set foot in DRRR fandom in part because of what I've seen of the woobifying of Izaya, so I won't argue with you there.

I have no problem with people liking him if they're honest about his morality! My major problem is how people act like he's a saint. I guess they don't realize the gray on black morality and try to translate it into white on black.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I don't understand how an entire fandom can run with such a complete misreading of a character as they do with Izaya. I can understand why; I just can't get how.

Like Izaya, I find Claire utterly fascinating because he's so awful. Because he's shades of gray, and has his own bizarre moral(ish) code that makes sense within the context of himself even if it's horrible to the rest of the world. Because he doesn't make the excuses that fandom seems to want to make for him.

I love what Narita does with such amoral characters (which, arguably, could cover ALL his characters), I love seeing how he teases out fragments of their psyches along the way. To reduce them to poor misunderstood babies is not only boring, it's a complete shallow bastardization of what Narita does with them.

I don't see much of the Baccano! fandom (turned off enough already by the Durarara!! fandom) so I've never seen the Claire-is-a-saint stuff, thankfully.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

That I can appreciate! One of the reasons I love the series is how it is populated mostly by people on the moral "bad" side.

Yeah, as much as I love this series... I would not recommend diving into fandom much, save for maybe a blog or two.

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, the 'scared kid who attempted murder' was in negotiations with a psychopath to murder everyone on the train. So, you know. He still didn't deserve the Rail Tracer, but that's mostly because there are very few people who actually deserve being grated on a train track. Presuming you meant Czes, of course. I had a moment where I thought you'd meant Dune, because he was one I remember being graphically grated, and I was a little confused because Dune was not (initially) scared, not a kid, and didn't so much 'attempt murder' as board the train with a gang of thugs lead by a complete psychopath in order to kill people for shits and giggles, which Dune started off in grand style by murdering Claire's friend for his uniform. Probably still didn't deserve to be grated, because seriously, Claire, Jesus Christ, but did deserve it a little bit more than Czes did.

Also to be fair, Lua's fiance is Ladd. I think there are probably more people than Claire who'd be willing to risk killing an already suicidal woman to put Ladd out of commission, though probably for different reasons. Not that it would make them good people either, but still. Ladd has a tendency to alter people's moral cost-benefit analysis parameters just a little bit.

Point being, Claire is not remotely a good person, but he's not really any more morally questionable than many of the characters he goes up against, and he does get points for being an outrageous badass who's both horrifying and amazing to watch in action. He's enjoyable as a character and as a spoke in everyone else's wheel. That said, yes, I would definitely look askance at anyone seriously trying to argue that he's a good guy.

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, the 'scared kid who attempted murder' was in negotiations with a psychopath to murder everyone on the train

This. I'm sympathetic towards Czes because he's an extremely messed up and traumatized and I like his character quite a lot (I like almost all of the characters in Baccano tbh) but he's not quite the fragile and innocent child that his appearance would suggest although he definitely has plenty of moments of vulnerability. He's a centuries old immortal who can be pretty manipulative when he wants to be. Hell, he pretty much needs to be manipulative and cunning if he's an immortal stuck in a kid's body forever.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. Czes has a reason for his cold-blooded, fear-driven screwed-up-ness like you wouldn't believe, but it still leads to him being willing to contemplate mass-murdering everyone in his vicinity in order to flush out the one who'd actually be a threat to him. I actually do still love him, and those moments with Isaac, Miria and Maiza are heartbreaking, but innocent he most decidedly is not. Fermet burned that out of him a loooonnnggg time ago.

[(Anonymous)]

People judge Narita characters off morality, and expect to find "good" ones?

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, I am just as baffled. And also frothing with rage, because it ruins the fun.

[totallysane]

It really does. Loving a character shouldn't mean agreeing with everything they do or justifying it.

[(Anonymous)]

People think Clair is a good person? I mean, he's pretty much an unrepentant psycho. I get lots of people use his relationship with Chane as him being "soft" or whatever but it always felt hamfisted to me. Gotta agree with him being boringly invincible too, it's been pretty much out right stated that the only reason he isn't immortal would be because he'd be too broken as if he isn't enough.

TBH, I like Ladd more than him which makes me a hypocrite because Ladd is also a psycho, but at least he has the decency to be amusing and so over the top that he's fun to watch.

[(Anonymous)]

Doesn't surprise me. There are people who think Loki is a good person, too.

[(Anonymous)]

Woah woah woah, hold up. There's someone in fandom who believes Czes deserved to get grated on train tracks?! I'm saying someone because I absolutely refuse to believe this is a common opinion.

I mean yeah he's probably got his share of blood on his hands and isn't a "good" guy, and if you really count him a "kid" or not being centuries old, idk. But he's certainly still as vulnerable as a kid, both physically and emotionally, plus he's adorable, so I have no idea how anyone could come to the conclusion that he should be tortured "to death".

OP

[(Anonymous)]

This secret sponsored in part by people in the tumblr Baccano! tag complaining about how creepy Czes is and how he got what he deserved/deserved worse. :/

I'm sure (well, hoping) that it's a minority opinion and people don't bother to disagree because of how stupid it is, but I've seen it crop up more than a couple times.