fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3075 ]

[ SECRET POST #3075 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3075 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Spy]

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[Eurovision]

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[Captain America]

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14. [SPOILERS for Steven Universe]

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15. [SPOILERS for Age of Ultron]

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16. [SPOILERS for Harry Potter, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and DragonFable]

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17. [WARNING for sexual abuse]

(Duggar Family, 19 kids & Counting)

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18. [WARNING for incest]

[A Redtail's Dream]

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19. [WARNING for rape]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #439.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

It's not rude to say you don't like it, I think what OP is getting at is the other part you said, where no one could like it, etc- the people who have been saying the equivalent of "this ship is stupid and you are stupid if you like it". Which I have seen, all over my f-list, and especially all over Tumblr. I'm all for people discussing why they don't like ships, but I have felt personally attacked by a lot of the Clint/Natasha shippers for liking Bruce/Natasha. (I like both ships, for the record, and in fact most ships in MCU fandom.)

Ah. Okay, then. I haven't really seen that. I've mostly seen people willing to agree to disagree and then a couple Bruce/Natasha shippers getting angry at people for not liking their ship or Natasha's bits in the movie. But there are the extremists in every ship.

But there are the extremists in every ship.

Sadly, this is very true, and takes the fun out of fandom. I think I had the misfortune of being acquainted with too many of the Clint/Natasha extremists. :(

Yeah, this is what I meant, sorry if it didn't come across. I'm fine with people not liking the ship, I didn't even expect it to get popular tbh. But after AOU came out, you couldn't go into the Brucetasha tag on Tumblr (which, you'd think, would be primarily for people who like the ship) without reading pages and pages of vitriol about how people experienced nausea upon seeing Bruce & Natasha interact, how Whedon is history's greatest monster, and how Natasha is now tainted for all eternity. Now, I realize from the tone of these posts that they were probably written by twelve year olds, and honestly, people are entitled to even those overreactions, but - seeing all that stuff after looking forward to Bruce/Natasha having more scenes, and looking forward to talk with a couple fans about it, was ... pretty shitty.

I even agree that Natasha was not written as well as she was in CATWS (which is also the better movie). But I was really sore about the open hostiliy.

The sad part is, I know for a fact that some of those posts were written by people who weren't twelve, nor even in their teens, but people in their f-ing mid-twenties, because I follow people on Tumblr who are my LJ friends, and they wrote similarly themed posts. :(

Oh and I also found it really gross when the super hardcore anti-bruce/nat people started attacking Mark Ruffalo. Like can you please not involve real people on your stupid ship wars, thanks.

Eurgh, yes. That's just unacceptable in every way.

Lol I totally understand.
Bruce/Nat was my secret underground crack ship since 2012 so I'm a little biased. And yeah it wasn't written the best, but it wasn't the worst thing ever and I still found them cute.
I get why people wouldn't like it but some of the criticisms I've seen for the pairing make me roll my eyes so hard Im surprised they haven't rolled out of my head yet.

-“Natasha blushes too much and is too submissive around the hulk!! ” (wtf?)

-“Natasha shouldn’t be defined by a man’s relationship!” (only to spend the next 4+ paragraphs waxing poetry on how she should of interacted more/hook up with clint/steve/bucky instead. because apparently Natasha having a love interest is the worst thing in the history of forever unless it’s your otp, of course.)

- “Bruce dumped all his angsty man pain on her!!!” (Uh, wasnt Natasha the one who opened up and told HER sad backstory?? Like I’m sorry but did I miss something.)

- “Natasha angsted too much over bruce leaving and was super emo and occ!!!” (Yes because how dare she be upset her friend/someone she has romantic feelings towards completely disappear and have no idea where he could possibly be. She should always be invincible and nothing should ever be out of her reach and she should never show any negative emotions ever.:/ Also that augment is kinda moot because she still decides to stay with the Avengers anyways instead of immediately running off to find bruce, because she knows the mission comes first. )

-“AGE OF ULTRON IS THE WORST ANTI-FEMINIST SEXIST MOVIE OF THE YEAR AND IF YOU LIKE IT YOURE JUST AS BAD AT WHEADON!!!"
(lol plz stop)

OP here. Thank you omg yes, this whole post.

I really feel like a lot of these complaints wouldn't have come up with any of the other characters. I mean, Natasha showing emotions is not a bad thing in the first place (she was not SUPER EMO ffs), but if she had been upset over Steve or Clint, people would've been all over it.

And idk, even though it wasn't written well, to me it really did feel like Bruce was Natasha's love interest and not the other way around - she had a much higher profile than he did since she was fleshed out more over several movies, while he was only in the two Avengers. So I did not get the sense that she grew weak or disappeared into his storyline at all. It was still about her, her feelings, her choices.

The rest...yeah, I don't even know what to say. But thanks for writing this.

UGH I KNOW
The whole hypocrisy about how fans are going about this just really annoys me.
And as a bruce fan it bums me out. :T
I can't stand criticisms that just boil down to:

Anti BN: Bruce/Nat is awful because it ruins Natasha's character and makes her relay on a man and her whole existence relays on a guy!!!

AntiBN: (continues to wax poetry for the next five paragraphs about how better Natasha would be with Clint/Steve/Bucky.)

Like omg it's so hypocritical. Like do they not see how little sense that makes. If you don't like brutasha, fine. Your opinion and all. But don't pretend it's for some super progressive feminist reason. Because it's pretty obvious that you don't actually think that way.

all the over aggressive backlash just seems kinda dumb. Natasha has been completely destroyed as a character and was nothing more than a vehicle of Bruce's manpain, Scarlett Johannson must be disgusted, Barton's canonical relationship was only introduced to ruin Clintasha but maybe they'll kill off Laura to put them back together in Infinity Wars. Natasha is actually manipulating Bruce and dosent actually like him. (This "fan theory" is so popular but it's super occ? And it makes Nat look like a big jerkass I don't get why so many Natasha stans ascribe to it.)
It's gross, and I also wonder how good a grasp they had on Natasha's character to start with- she holds her own in fights, she uses words to gain power (the lullaby) over something that she was initially scared of due to lack of control, she adds somebody to her circle of trust after he's proven himself repeatedly, she fights some more, she uses the resources at hand when she's kidnapped*, and when the chips are down she betrays the trust of somebody she values because it's the right thing to do. Then she stays with the Avengers instead of immediately running off to rescue the guy she's interested in, because the mission comes first.

A big draw of MCU Widow is that she kicks all kinds of ass, but gets no gratification from it the way Tony, Thor, or even Cap do. She takes pleasure in combat, but that fact is a mark of shame. She's compelled to do good works to "wipe out the red in her ledger," but by doing it through violence she's honoring/ vindicating the people that made her.
Part of why she admires Banner so much is that he's fighting that same battle between desiring violence and loathing it.

And lol thanks. I've had a lot of built up frustration over this so it's nice to let it out.

"she holds her own in fights, she uses words to gain power (the lullaby) over something that she was initially scared of due to lack of control, she adds somebody to her circle of trust after he's proven himself repeatedly, she fights some more, she uses the resources at hand when she's kidnapped*, and when the chips are down she betrays the trust of somebody she values because it's the right thing to do. Then she stays with the Avengers instead of immediately running off to rescue the guy she's interested in, because the mission comes first."

Yes, all of this! This is what I took away from it too, and I thought that was super interesting. Yeah, the whole relationship was kinda rushed and the dialogue wasn't always convincing, but I thought that was pretty much Natasha's arc, not something about her suddenly melting into a tiny, submissive puddle or whatever. She did not throw it all away for Bruce, she stayed true to herself, even when it hurt.

About people hoping that Clint's family dies, LOL I KNOW I have no words. Though I've heard that this is canon in the Ultimates, so...it might happen? (Which is kinda horrible?) Idk.

Different anon- I was half-reading this and missed it in the post, and started to wonder if I was posting in my sleep. I wrote that on FS weeks ago, so I'm glad people are taking it into their own character interpretations! I wasn't going to say anything, but footnotes left hanging drive me nuts so I'll just add that the note about Nat's kidnapping was:

*Which is one of the things that suffered from editing and can be icky, but makes narrative sense. Any way they found Ultron was going to be forced. Being the only close range, non super fighter made her the logical choice for capture, unfortunately. She then send out an SOS message; I hear people asking why she didn't just escape, but from where she was she could KEEP sending out the message until she knew it was received even if it put *her* in more danger.

Anyways, I'm sorry you had to see that. :(
Ive had more then a few people who I used to like say some really mean and gross things about bruce/nat and their shippers. I really wish the mcu fandom was as fun, nice ,and open-minded like it used to be but... c'est la vie.

If you want, I can link you to some pretty friendly pro-bruce/nat blogs. They do exist, I assure you.

OP here. I'd actually love those links, if you have the time. Thank you!

http://ecokitty.tumblr.com (makes lots of cute fanart, a pretty big supporter of bruce/nat)

blueincandescence.tumblr.com (writes a LOT of really good meta and fan theories and fanfic)

hulkwidownet.tumblr.com (self-explanatory)

maniacal-marshmallow.tumblr.com (reblogs a lot of bruce/nat gifsets and defends the paring when she can)

dehaanradcliffe.tumblr.com (makes a bunch of nice gifsets)

natashasbanner.tumblr.com (pretty self explanatory)

kastiabc.tumblr.com (makes a lotta hella cute fanart)

You're awesome. Cute Hulkwidow fanart OMG. Gonna go on a binge now, thanks!

Not OP, but thank you for this!!

Thank you! Following a bunch of these now:)

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[ SECRET POST #3075 ]

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